308 Marlin Express ?

Goat · Post by **Goat** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 9:54 am

Local gunshop has a Walnut/blue 308ME with most of a box of ammo and scope bases and rings for $400. I was about to buy a Henry 22 but now I may have to postpone that purchase and buy another Marlin levergun that I do not "need". So, once again I ask for your opinions. What do you think of these rifles and particularly of this chambering? I have read some of the gunrag articles and seen it used on some of the hunting shows but have been around long enough not to believe everything I see or read. do I understand correctly that with the gummy tipped factory loads with their propriatory powders that they are approaching 308 winchester ballistics and are eqaling to slightly surpassing 300savage specs? Thanks for your replies, Goat

Post by **Hobie** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 10:02 am

You know as much as I do. I have read that it is IMPOSSIBLE to duplicate factory ballistics with cannister powders and available bullets. I don't know about that, there must be at least one powder out there with the same burn rate and at least close to the other characteristics of the powder the factory uses.

I have to add, that if it were ME (emphasis added) I'd forgo this and get the .22...

Pisgah · Post by **Pisgah** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 10:30 am

Hobie makes a point, and I'll expand on it a bit. LE performance comes from three factors -- the bullet, the powder, and the loading technique. Hornady has given no indication of when or if they will sell the bullet as a reloading component. No one knows what the powder is, and Hornady ain't saying except to say it is a non-canister powder (translation -- you and I can't buy it). And, the performance of the powder comes not only from its burning rate but the fact that it is very densely loaded by a proprietary loading technique -- in other words, if we had the bullets and the powder, we still couldn't duplicate the factory load. Get close -- yes, and that would still be a heckuva round. But duplicate, no.

It is my firm belief that the .308 Express was designed for two purposes: to get a significant gain in levergun performance, and to creeate a proprietary cartridge for Hornady -- one only they could produce.

Goat · Post by **Goat** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 10:48 am

Thanks guys. I wonder if you could get 307 Winchester performance from this case or has it been modified too much to even get there? I have been thinking that I might "need" a Savage 99 in 300 Savage and maybe I should turn my thinking back there. Right now the only thing that I have that is close to thirty caliber is my 1894CL in 32/20. Surely as an American rifleman I should own at least one rifle of thirty caliber.
Goat

william iorg · Post by **william iorg** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 10:50 am

A fine rifle and cartridge at an excellent price. Here are links to two rambling threads which have some .308 Marlin Express data for you to ponder. The .307 Winchester (my favorite) is dead and gone. The .308ME is easier to work with than the .30-30AI (a very fine cartridge in its own right). If you have even a mild interest in accurate lever-action rifles you will enjoy this rifle.

http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm ... Winchester

http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm ... Winchester

Post by **Hobie** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 10:50 am

My response to getting this level of performance from a .30 cal levergun was to get a .308 Winchester chambered Savage 99... I'm happy with my choice and I still use (when I get to use anything) my .30-30s...

william iorg · Post by **william iorg** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 11:09 am

Hobie,
All fine cartridges and rifles.
If your buying a new rifle the Marlin 308MX is a good one.

Jaguarundi · Post by **Jaguarundi** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 11:35 am

Hobie has brought up valid points.

I own a Marlin 308MX and it is the smoothest operating most accurate factory marlin levergun I have had the privledge of handling.

Unfortunately unless the situation on the Ammo/reload is resolved 308 ME will go the way of the 307 Winchester.Marlinowners.com has a excellent forum thread on the 308 Marlin Express http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/inde ... board=60.0 .BTW $400 is a excellent price (that is lower than dealer cost from most distributors for a new rifle)

!A new in the box 308 MX rifle alone in my locale goes for $499.(maybe a tad higher now as that was last years price)

Buffboy · Post by **Buffboy** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 11:45 am

I considered one of these for the wife then thought if we want 300 savage performance all the time, we'd just get a 300. It's not hard to duplicate the factory load performance with reloads either. Besides it comes in a Savage 99. The wife hasn't even shot it yet and already she loves it.

There's nothing wrong with the 308MX and I'm glad to see it out there. I got my wife to handle one at a dealer and she liked it "ok" but then the wife shot a 99 in 308 that belongs to friend and that was that, we "were" getting a 99 in 308 or 300.

Jaguarundi · Post by **Jaguarundi** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 3:53 pm

308 ME factory load in my stock Marlin 308MX.

Jaguarundi · Post by **Jaguarundi** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 3:56 pm

Goat here is some dims comparision between 307 win & 308 me.

tman · Post by **tman** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:37 pm

the gummytipped 30wfc., when both shot out of a 20" barrel, are close enough ballistically not to make much of a practical difference on game. i thought the .307wfc. was the greatest thing, next to the .356wcf. as sliced bread. unfortunately. noby else did. unless you want to split hairs, go with the 30-30.

handirifle · Post by **handirifle** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:49 pm

Don't have one, but IF CA hadn't passed the lead ban, I would own one. For me, the next best option is the BLR in 308 Win. I might still go that way anyway.

I've read nothing but good reports on accuracy and performance, and velocity figures, from the longer barreled rifles are very close, if not spot on to what they're getting. Most report right at 2600fps.

I think, Marlin will recognise the need to release the bullets soon, but I do think they're trying to recoup their investment, which they have a right to do.

Older rifles like the Savage 99 can out do them, with rounds like the 308 Win, but let's see. when was the last time I saw a new 99 on the shelf? Or even a used one for that matter, no here anyway.

Since CA went lead free, I just converted one of my Savage bolt guns from 243 to 308 Win, and it will have to do.

My local dealer had the same rifle, for $450, so I say $400 is a steal.

william iorg · Post by **william iorg** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 5:49 pm

To be fair you cannot compare the .30-30 LeveRevolution to the .308 Marlin Express. To begin with the two bullets are different and have a different BC.
.30-30 LeveRevolution ammunition chronographed 2,087 fps in my 16â€

Jaguarundi · Post by **Jaguarundi** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 5:58 pm

[quote="william iorg"]
I donâ€™t see how we can compare the .30-30 anything to the .308 Marlin Express.
What I would like to see is a good reloading thread with recent 20â€

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:10 pm

Read Ken Waters Pet Loads

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:11 pm

Sorry, PS; I have Pet Loads if you need a peek

Jaguarundi · Post by **Jaguarundi** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:13 pm

Thanks have a copy.Bullets and powders have changed since those articles.

Ken has a 165 grain Speer spitzer in 22" BARREL loaded NEAR maximium with 38 grains of IMR-3031 Chronoed at 2500 fps.Results may very in a different gun...Apples and Oranges.

tman · Post by **tman** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:20 pm

i agree that the .308 marlin will out run the 30wfc. in any form in any test. my point is, is the difference between the 2, worth it. at 300yrds. will an elk know the difference. will an elk know the difference between between a .308 and a .300 mag at 300yrds. ? not trying to dis the .308 marlin. only your individual preforancance matters, just my 2 cents worth.

Leverdude · Post by **Leverdude** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:57 pm

I'd buy it. If nothing else you could get your money back at that price.
I like mine so far & Hodgdons shows 150 grain bullets getting 2600 +/- from H335. I loaded some to try tomorrow if the weather cooperates. I should get about 2400 from starting loads, if I do I'm going to work towards 2600 & see how close I get.

I dont need it, I'v got a couple 30/30's & a 7mm08 among others. But I think its definately a step up from a 30/30 & I wanted it. Cant touch 2600fps with a 30/30.

big medicine · Post by **big medicine** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 8:31 pm

The 308MX has become my go to rifle. I killed a lot of stuff with the 308MX last year. First off I shot a deer at 365 yards with it. The shot was nearly straight on. It flipped the deer over backwards and the bullet I recovered near the left rear hind quarter, and it weighed 129 grains, it opened up wellI shot an elk at 178 yards and left it DRT. I shot a buck with it at 147 yards DRT, and I shot another doe with it at about 150 yards DRT. I killed a coyote at about 200 yards and multiple crows out to about 150 yards.

This rifle is the real deal. I'm working on hand loads for it but I intend to hunt with factory ammo. I gave Steve Hornady a pic of a group I shot at 517 yards and the group was about 1.75 inches. This ammo is hard to beat.

At $400 bucks it is a steal. Forget the henry and get the 308MX.

Post by **Chuck 100 yd** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 8:53 pm

Yup, My MX will out shoot me!
I have been working on handloads and find Varget seems to be the powder for the 150 gr. bullet with very good accuracy and velocity getting very close to factory ammo with sub maximum loads. I don`t push for the last 75-100 fps if the accuracy is there.

Leverdude · Post by **Leverdude** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 9:05 pm

Chuck 100 yd wrote:Yup, My MX will out shoot me!
I have been working on handloads and find Varget seems to be the powder for the 150 gr. bullet with very good accuracy and velocitys geting very close to factory ammo with sub maximum loads. I don`t push for the last 75-100 fps if the accuracy is there.

Maybe I'll try Varget next.

handirifle · Post by **handirifle** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 9:05 pm

william iorg wrote:To be fair you cannot compare the .30-30 LeveRevolution to the .308 Marlin Express. To begin with the two bullets are different and have a different BC.

That's the first I heard they were different bullets. Where'd you get that info? The BC difference might be based soley on the difference in velocity. The bullets TRUE BC does vary depending on it's speed.

Jaguarundi · Post by **Jaguarundi** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 10:13 pm

The 308 ME cartridge case overall length is shorter than the 30-30 but both are loaded to a similar overall length.The 308 ME bullet is longer.

william iorg · Post by **william iorg** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 10:42 pm

â€œmy point is, is the difference between the 2, worth it.â€

cecil · Post by **cecil** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 7:48 am

william-thanks for the real world results of the .307 Win. Haven't hunted yet with the one purchased last year, but plan to this up coming season. It is extremely accurate with Speer 130,150 and 170 flat noses and 748.

Am thinking a Marlin 308mx is equilavent, if the barrel lenght was 20 inches. Was thinking on the blued version, but lack of resonaable loading supplies stopped me (hornaby brass is expensive).

tman · Post by **tman** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 7:52 am

allright, you guys convinced me. guess i'm a little gunshy after having my heartbroken by winchester dropping the .356wcf. from the model 94. i wish a long life to the .308 marlin. maybe mossburg will put one in its 94 copy

Leverdude · Post by **Leverdude** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:18 am

cecil wrote:william-thanks for the real world results of the .307 Win. Haven't hunted yet with the one purchased last year, but plan to this up coming season. It is extremely accurate with Speer 130,150 and 170 flat noses and 748.

Am thinking a Marlin 308mx is equilavent, if the barrel lenght was 20 inches. Was thinking on the blued version, but lack of resonaable loading supplies stopped me (hornaby brass is expensive).

The MX has a 22" barrel & the MXLR a 24"

BenT · Post by **BenT** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:42 am

A Win 307 would be sweet .Just can't find any afforable shooters around here. So if I want more performance than a 30-30 . The 308mx is an easily obtainable option. I need to pick up a 444 first , maybe next year a 308mx.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:51 am

Dumb Question on the Marlin plastic-tip XLR guns....

It looks like the OTHER chamberings are all just 'ordinary' cartridges which they've put more streamlined, yet safe-for-tubular-magazine bullets in, so the GUNS are the same, right?

It seems like if the guns could handle the pressure, you could do that with the ordinary .308 round, and save alot of trouble, at least once the polymer-tip bullets (or inserts to put in factory hollowpoints) become available.

They may become collector's items, if some yahoo manages to put 'real' rounds in one and gets a magazine detonation; then the lawyers will have a field day. (Shakespeare was right...)

Leverdude · Post by **Leverdude** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:44 am

They cant handle full out 308 pressures. The MX is limited to I think 44,000psi or thereabouts. Its a cool thing IMO & I like it alot, but it aint a 308 Win.

I'm curious about useing ballistic tips in place of the leverevolution gummy bear bullets. I dont have any at the moment but have in the past & think theyre too soft to detonate a primer. I'm going to buy some for my 7mm08 & try to get a primer to go off with one. I dont think I can.

I have a couple old barrels & figure I can just seat a primer in an empty case, clamp the barrel in my vice & whack that puppy with a hammer.

I'll let my wife know so if I blow myself up she can post the results.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 10:06 am

Leverdude wrote: I'll let my wife know so if I blow myself up she can post the results.

What if you put a primed case neck down in the bottom of a 10 ft piece of 3/8" (or whatever size would center the rounds adequately), and dropped an unpromed, unpowdered, but bullet-seated 'round' down the tube?

I would think that if THAT didn't detonate the primer, then the tips of whatever bullet you used would be pretty darned safe!

big medicine · Post by **big medicine** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:24 pm

handirifle wrote:
william iorg wrote:To be fair you cannot compare the .30-30 LeveRevolution to the .308 Marlin Express. To begin with the two bullets are different and have a different BC.
That's the first I heard they were different bullets. Where'd you get that info? The BC difference might be based soley on the difference in velocity. The bullets TRUE BC does vary depending on it's speed.

The 308MX and the 30-30 LE bulets are two different bullets, the whole design is different.

marlin shooter · Post by **marlin shooter** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:39 pm

I have a .308MX and will say it is very accurate with the leverevolution ammo. I have reloaded mine with 150 grn RN and REL 15 Not guite as accurate or as fast as the leverevolution though beat's any 30-30 I've owned. I bet the balistic tip's would be okay but no cannelure. When we were younger one of our friends did the hit the primer with a hammer and a nail (I know very dangerous) and I'll tell you he had to hit it pretty hard. The case was in a vise so it didn't move. I've read report's of people using the Remington 150 grn spitzer in their .35 rem 336's with no problem. I don't think Rem has a disclaimer on their box except to only use them in modern rifle's chambered for this cartridge. The only real blowups I've read of was when Marlin submitted their origional 45-70 for testing to the army (1880's)?.
Karl

marlin shooter · Post by **marlin shooter** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:49 pm

[quote="william iorg"]

I donâ€™t see how we can compare the .30-30 anything to the .308 Marlin Express.
What I would like to see is a good reloading thread with recent 20â€

william iorg · Post by **william iorg** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 3:13 pm

Karl, I have long wanted to do exactly what you are about to do. I have studied quite a bit of .300 Savage load data and there is quite a bit of it that appears too good to be true. I have a personal attachment to the cartridge but have never been able to develop a clear understanding of its performance potential in the real world. The data from Ken Waters Pet Loads article in the March 2001 issue of Handloader is the best I have seen as it graphs along side of data from the .307 Winchester and the .308 Marlin Express. Other data I have looked at will not graph for me. It is probably good data but there is just something I donâ€™t understand about the .300 Savage.
Using rifles with the same length barrels you will have the best comparison available for the Marlin .308 Marlin Express. This is something the mainstream gun press has failed to do.

Leverdude · Post by **Leverdude** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 4:31 pm

AJMD429 wrote:
Leverdude wrote: I'll let my wife know so if I blow myself up she can post the results.

What if you put a primed case neck down in the bottom of a 10 ft piece of 3/8" (or whatever size would center the rounds adequately), and dropped an unpromed, unpowdered, but bullet-seated 'round' down the tube?

I would think that if THAT didn't detonate the primer, then the tips of whatever bullet you used would be pretty darned safe!

I was joking. Nothing will happen except for a bang.
I tried it with pointed soft point bullets & couldn't get one to fire. I dont use them because theres no need but I dont think it can happen short of FLJ. As part of the experiment I did set one off with an old fireing pin & hammer. It just goes bang.

Course I'll be wearing saftey glasses. I dont expect I'll be able to do it.