A little more work with Lil' Gun and 32/20, also 25/20

[earlmck]

Today I took the trusty Savage 23 out to try some 32/20 loads that are working for several of you levergunners. I had my Ranch Dog 117 grain, cast of wheelweights and sized .313 bullets loaded ahead of 5.5 grains Unique, 8.0 grains Lil' Gun, and 8.5 grains Lil' Gun. R-P cases, Federal small pistol magnum primers (which are essentially identical to small rifle primers).

First off I can say that the Savage didn't hate any of these loads but it didn't particularly like them either.
The 5.5 Unique gave 1360 +/- 27 fps and a 5" group. QuickLoad predicts 1500 fps.
8.0 grains Lil' Gun gave 1430 +/- 30 fps and a 5" group. QL predicts 1137 fps.
8.5 grains Lil' Gun gave 1488 +/- 6 fps and a 3.5" group. QL predicts 1213 fps.

I thought it very interesting that the additional half grain of Lil' Gun really increased the consistency of the velocity of the load (reduced the standard deviation); good chance you'd get the same result going to a magnum rifle primer from the standard like jnyork noted in a previous thread.

While I was set up with the chronograph I shot the 25/20 with similar loads. This is a M92 with 24" bbl. and Lyman .258312 bullet weighing 90 grains, WW cases and CCI small rifle primer.
5.5 grains Unique gave 1555 +/- 20 fps and a 7" group. QL predicted 1710 fps and excess pressure.
6.5 grains Lil' Gun gave 1465 +/- 23 fps and a 8" group. QL predicted 1280 fps.
8.0 grains Lil' Gun gave 1720 +/- 7 fps and a 4" group. QL predicted 1375 fps.

With both rifles, when I hit a certain level of pressure with Lil' Gun the standard deviation shrunk dramatically. That's no doubt why you fellows are liking your results with this powder. I'm going to have a talk with my rifles and explain to them they gotta' shape up and show more appreciation.

And I was shocked at the poor predictions the normally trusty QuickLoad is giving for both 32/20 and 25/20. It was quite a bit over in its prediction for Unique and waaay under in its prediction for Lil' Gun. This is by far the worst I have seen QL perform: it has been amazingly close to actual in any other cartridge I have explored.

[Tycer]

Excellent. Thanks for the report! In 357/360 DW, Lil'Gun seems to like 90-95% load density.

[ollogger]

Earl you really put out some nice range reports Thank You!!



Brad

[Tycer]

Earl,
How much bullet is in the case?

[earlmck]

Earl,
How much bullet is in the case?

Tycer, the 32/20 COAL is 1.56" which slightly engraves the lands: 25/20 is seated to crimp groove at 1.62"

25and3220seatdepths6312.jpg

[Tycer]

I'm trying to figure out the speed differences with 8.0. My 311316 is a solid 120 grains with the gas check. If my measurements are correct as taken from the computer screen. . . I'm seating about .008" deeper into the case than you are and using Starline brass which is thicker than the RPs. I'm also at 2400' elev.

[Sixgun]

Earl the Pearl.......(when I was a kid (still am) we had a friend named Earl and that's what we called him)

One thing I have come to demand on when casting bullets.....the smaller the bore diameter, the harder the alloy needs to be.....yes, even when only pushing them 1200 or so. It's the same way with bore condition.....big 45's can be rusty and still shoot good but small bores had better be perfect. I like to add crowns...small bores need to be perfect with no wear on ends of the rifling from steel rods.

My 25-20's are cast from Linotype and when the new Lee .22 Mould gets here, it will be the same alloy.

I bet you could cut your groups in half by using a harder alloy...even more so than playing with different powders.------6

[Bill in Oregon]

Earl, my friend, good to hear you are getting out and popping some caps with your smallbores. Hope your knees are fully healed!

[Tycer]

Earl the Pearl.......(when I was a kid (still am) we had a friend named Earl and that's what we called him)

One thing I have come to demand on when casting bullets.....the smaller the bore diameter, the harder the alloy needs to be.....yes, even when only pushing them 1200 or so. It's the same way with bore condition.....big 45's can be rusty and still shoot good but small bores had better be perfect. I like to add crowns...small bores need to be perfect with no wear on ends of the rifling from steel rods.

My 25-20's are cast from Linotype and when the new Lee .22 Mould gets here, it will be the same alloy.

I bet you could cut your groups in half by using a harder alloy...even more so than playing with different powders.------6

6 I'll water drop some to compare my next go around. I've got enough antimony in my alloy to harden them up nice.

[Sixgun]

Tycer,
Yea, I water drop too as it's easier to just "plop em in" than finding a nice folded towel that you constantly have to watch where your dumping the next batch.

Here's MY problem with water dropping .....unless you have the mould smokin hot......and that's hard to do with small bullets.....you get a lot of variations in hardness...therefore, variations in POI. But I am a man of little patience because time is a rare commodity around here so it might work better for you. I find it easier to use Lino.....but ......I'm a guy with a thousand pounds of the stuff........OK, ILL SHUT UP AND GO TO BED......fried brain.........got a big long range buffalo match tomorrow......gonna use the heavy buffalo barreled 1881 Marlin against all those fancy new Sharps rifles.-----6

[AJMD429]

Earl you really put out some nice range reports Thank You!!

Yep. One of the best parts of this forum....

[earlmck]

I bet you could cut your groups in half by using a harder alloy...even more so than playing with different powders.------6

I'm down to under 50 pounds of Linotype -- been using it only for 22's for years now. Guess I could sacrifice a bit of the stash to see if that does the job.

[Tycer]

I bet you could cut your groups in half by using a harder alloy...even more so than playing with different powders.------6

I'm down to under 50 pounds of Linotype -- been using it only for 22's for years now. Guess I could sacrifice a bit of the stash to see if that does the job.

I'm in a similar boat, but my Lino is in 25# hanging typeset machine bars. You know, I'm pretty sure I do have a large soup can of typeset I could use.

[Bronco]

Hey 6... Would like to hear about how that Marlin did in the buffalo match.. please !

John

[w30wcf]

Tycer,
.....unless you have the mould smokin hot......and that's hard to do with small bullets.....6

6,
I found that having new sprue plates made for my .22 molds with .062" (1/16") sprue holes allowed faster cycle times which keep the molds up to temp. Using a single cavity mold, 300 match grade .22 bullets can be made in an hour (5 casts minute). A double will produce about 500 match grade bullets / hr.

w30wcf

[J35]

Tycer,
.....unless you have the mould smokin hot......and that's hard to do with small bullets.....6

6,
I found that having new sprue plates made for my .22 molds with .062" (1/16") sprue holes allowed faster cycle times which keep the molds up to temp. Using a single cavity mold, 300 match grade .22 bullets can be made in an hour (5 casts minute). A double will produce about 500 match grade bullets / hr.

w30wcf

I followed Johns advice and had special sprue plate's made for my 22 molds back in 2006-07.

Works as advertised, highly recommend it.

---------J