Recent tone of the forum

Post by **AmBraCol** » Thu May 08, 2008 7:58 am

Guys, this forum is nothing really new. Its roots go back to the mid 90's and a bunch of guys who hung out on the old earp.com forum (before my time, but that's what I've gleaned over the years - you old timers feel free to correct me) From that sprung sixguns.com and sixgunner.com along with the Campfire and the sixgunner.com forum on the old disc.sewer servers (now disc.yourwebbapps.com , like the sixshootercommunity forum) Many of the folks posting here on leverguns.com's community forum have been around one or another or all of the above for well over a decade. The original forums were started by Christian men of good character and the folks who gravitated to them were also largely well mannered. It was understood that we were essentially sitting in John Taffin's and Jim Taylor's virtual living room and that behavior was expected to be appropriate to that environment. We've managed over the years to run a fairly clean, family friendly forum, something I attribute to the character of the founders. In the due process of time Paco Kelly started up leverguns.com and had a forum on the new sixgunner.com server. The needs of the forum outgrew the format and the maintenance was not up to snuff, resulting in bi-annual breakdowns and the eventual move to the new form now hosted on levergunscommunity.com

A while back we ran a poll to see how folks made their way here. A small percentage came from direct invitation by Paco or Jim, a slightly larger percentage came from personal invites and the vast majority came from "surfing the web" - brought hither by the cyber winds of a stormy internet. As such it is easy to see why folks may have lost sight of the founding principles of this forum. We try to run a clean and friendly community style forum where "most anything can be discussed - politely" It's that last little piece that's been whanged up a bit lately. The civility of the forum has degenerated noticeably over the past few months - and it's time to change that.

There's no need to say "no off topic posts" or "no political posts" or "no religious posts". Those posts are NOT THE PROBLEM. The problem is in how discussion is carried out. My mom taught me "If you can't say something nice, say nothing at all" and I'll adapt that to our needs here on the forum. "If you can't be polite in your reply to folks you don't agree with - don't reply."

There's plenty of room for a wide variety of opinions and ideas. That is the world we live in. On this forum we have folks from around the globe. I know that both North and South America are represented, as are Europe and Australia. I'm not sure, but believe we may even have a member or two in Asian countries and Africa is also represented in the membership. And of course the folks from the US of A outweigh the rest of the forum all together by a wide margin although the Canadians and Australians have strong showings as well. This wide variety of backgrounds leads to a wide variety of world views and notions of what should or should not be. In order to provide an enjoyable and healthy community it is important that we hail back to the ideas of the founding fathers. The founding fathers of this forum. And that means - KEEP IT CIVIL.

I was out all day yesterday with a couple quick stops in the office. I was saddened to see the way a couple of threads ran into heated exchanges. We should be above that, guys. So I'll quit harping with this one parting shot:

Keep it civil, or keep it to yourself until you CAN keep it civil.

Thanks,

Paul
The Webservant
Live from Pereira - far from his levergun

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Thu May 08, 2008 8:06 am

Thanks Paul. Will do.

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Thu May 08, 2008 8:17 am

Thanks, Paul. I agree and I'll do my best.

Jason_W · Post by **Jason_W** » Thu May 08, 2008 8:22 am

I think it's just a reflection of the tone of the country and in fact the world right now. Collectively, humanity seems to be a pretty ornery bunch of late. Not that this is an excuse for incivility here.

I can't wait until this election year is over and done.

Wayne Miller · Post by **Wayne Miller** » Thu May 08, 2008 8:25 am

I find it interesting that the first three gentlemen to reply truly ARE gentlemen who are not even CLOSE to being guilty of the addressed infractions. Interesting......

Post by **AmBraCol** » Thu May 08, 2008 8:27 am

Jason_W wrote:I think it's just a reflection of the tone of the country and in fact the world right now. Collectively, humanity seems to be a pretty ornery bunch of late. Not that this is an excuse for incivility here.

I can't wait until this election year is over and done.

The world's a messed up place 'cause no one's taking the leadership to straighten things up. We could use a few common sense moderators, but instead... anyway, this forum DOES have moderators and we're going to bang a few heads together until we all learn that this is a place for folks to come to relax, not be combative. There's plenty of lowest common denominator forums out there for the terminally pugnacious. It's time we reclaim this space for civility. Note that we're not calling for everyone to agree on everything, just to agree on treating each other civilly in spite of differences.

crs · Post by **crs** » Thu May 08, 2008 8:32 am

Well said.

nemhed · Post by **nemhed** » Thu May 08, 2008 8:37 am

Thanks for the reminder, Paul. Also thanks to both you and Hobie for your work here. Is three locked down topics in one morning a new record?

C. Cash · Post by **C. Cash** » Thu May 08, 2008 8:40 am

Thanks Paul. Will do.

Post by **Hobie** » Thu May 08, 2008 8:48 am

nemhed wrote:Thanks for the reminder, Paul. Also thanks to both you and Hobie for your work here. Is three locked down topics in one morning a new record?

Might be!

runfiverun · Post by **runfiverun** » Thu May 08, 2008 8:56 am

the members can throw a friendly reminder in once in a while also.
arguments can and will happen, they are what forums are for
to express an opinion,or observation. and to share information.
the way we choose to conduct ourselves,will show others how or
even if they wish to share information with us.

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Thu May 08, 2008 9:04 am

I think the only way you're going to get a handle on this problem is to immediately delete any topics that are not directly related to the safe and lawful use of firearms. Might even have to give a few folks a posting vacation.
But things have gotten way out of control as of late.

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Thu May 08, 2008 9:05 am

thanks Paul. I appreciate your post and will comply. Don, I don't think we should exclude conversation on any topic. Its part of why we come here, to hash out daily issues in our lives with people we have come to know and trust and respect. The passion we hold in our various positions on issues can be very informative, as well as formative, for those who are not up on the topics of concern. I think any topic can be discussed with gentlemanly demeanor. Points can be made, people can disagree. No tone of the country or candidate for president gives us the right to personaly attack others here or anywhere. In this forum we talk about leverguns, pistols of all sorts, shooting concerns and politics, and politics that could affect our sport. We come to offer prayer and ask for prayer for our concerns. We comfort in times of loss, in times of job change, or times of illness. We find joy in a new "find" at the pawn store, or the birth of a child, or a great day at the range, or a funny joke. We talk about puppies and cats and horses and mules, and cows and our jobs, the places we live, the things we like to do. What we do here is family. Plain and simple. Families share all due to their closeness and trust. Thats why I journey here many times a day - to check in on family. In my opinion, no topic is OT when it comes to family. But as in family, we must conduct ourselves in a manner that retains the respect and dignity of those that call this home. Just MHO.

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Thu May 08, 2008 9:08 am

Thank you for the correction on course Paul. I think the forum generally runs pretty smooth but for a few small speed bumps. And, general discussion isn't the problem, humans have had discussions for centuries. It's the arguments and attacks on certain professions, IMO, that aren't appropriate or proper. Thanks to you, Hobie, and all responsible for keeping this avenue of camaraderie alive.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Thu May 08, 2008 9:15 am

I would like to mention, and suggest eliminating, a two tiered system of tolerance for certain types of posts....It's really hard to look up to and be civil to someone when they are talking down to you

And yes, I will tone it down some..sorry

Sarge · Post by **Sarge** » Thu May 08, 2008 9:17 am

I am evidently one of the offenders and I also am apparently not milk-toast enough in my language to fit here. Y'all know where to find me.

Vaya con Dios.

Post by **AmBraCol** » Thu May 08, 2008 9:18 am

Don McDowell wrote:I think the only way you're going to get a handle on this problem is to immediately delete any topics that are not directly related to the safe and lawful use of firearms. Might even have to give a few folks a posting vacation.
But things have gotten way out of control as of late.

We thank you for the suggestion, but it flies in the spirit and tradition of the forum. The problem is not the "off topic" posts but rather the manner in which folks address differences of opinion. There's no room here for personal attacks or uncivil behavior, and we've deleted several such posts and will continue to do so. But the best solution is for folks to pay attention to themselves and their manner of discussion. We expect folks to "self police", stepping in only when folks forget the spirit of the forum. A few posts have even "gone missing" due to the inflammatory nature in which they were posted. Even "on topic" posts can get out of hand when folks don't handle differences of opinion correctly.

Dastook · Post by **Dastook** » Thu May 08, 2008 9:21 am

C. Cash wrote:Thanks Paul. Will do.

+1

Post by **AmBraCol** » Thu May 08, 2008 9:30 am

Sarge wrote:I am evidently one of the offenders and I also am apparently not milk-toast enough in my language to fit here. Y'all know where to find me.

Vaya con Dios.

Not at all, Sarge. In fact, I've never seen you indulge in personal attacks in your replies. Sure hope you stick around, the voice of experience is needed and I thank you for your input.

Slick13 · Post by **Slick13** » Thu May 08, 2008 9:36 am

nemhed wrote:Thanks for the reminder, Paul. Also thanks to both you and Hobie for your work here. Is three locked down topics in one morning a new record?

I was just reading through the locked Cops thread.... too bad it was stopped. I enjoy reading people's strong opinions. Helps me think and form my own opinions and ideas.

~Michael

Post by **AmBraCol** » Thu May 08, 2008 9:44 am

Slick13 wrote:
nemhed wrote:Thanks for the reminder, Paul. Also thanks to both you and Hobie for your work here. Is three locked down topics in one morning a new record?
I was just reading through the locked Cops thread.... too bad it was stopped. I enjoy reading people's strong opinions. Helps me think and form my own opinions and ideas.

~Michael

There were three intertwined topics which over the past 48 hours have generated more heat than light. It was time for a "time out" and a call to civility. The topics are not the problem but rather the way in which folks were responding to each other. That is why we locked them all down, we'll all have a chance to rethink what we're doing and get back to communicating more effectively. Strong opinions well defended is one thing. Personal attacks and generalizations is another.

Shucks, we're all on the same side of the gun issue - to one degree or another. It's far better to emphasize our commonality than it is to attack each other personally. Differences of opinion expressed in civil fashion are always welcome.

alnitak · Post by **alnitak** » Thu May 08, 2008 9:50 am

rjohns94 wrote:thanks Paul. I appreciate your post and will comply. Don, I don't think we should exclude conversation on any topic. Its part of why we come here, to hash out daily issues in our lives with people we have come to know and trust and respect. The passion we hold in our various positions on issues can be very informative, as well as formative, for those who are not up on the topics of concern. I think any topic can be discussed with gentlemanly demeanor. Points can be made, people can disagree. No tone of the country or candidate for president gives us the right to personaly attack others here or anywhere. In this forum we talk about leverguns, pistols of all sorts, shooting concerns and politics, and politics that could affect our sport. We come to offer prayer and ask for prayer for our concerns. We comfort in times of loss, in times of job change, or times of illness. We find joy in a new "find" at the pawn store, or the birth of a child, or a great day at the range, or a funny joke. We talk about puppies and cats and horses and mules, and cows and our jobs, the places we live, the things we like to do. What we do here is family. Plain and simple. Families share all due to their closeness and trust. Thats why I journey here many times a day - to check in on family. In my opinion, no topic is OT when it comes to family. But as in family, we must conduct ourselves in a manner that retains the respect and dignity of those that call this home. Just MHO.

Well said, Mike! +1

I, too, believe any subject is appropriate in this forum. Don't read the OTs if you don't want to. But all subjects, and posters, should be treated with respect and lack of personal attacks. Civil disagreement is a foundation for information exchange and discourse. What a boring place this would be if we all felt the same and expressed the same opinions ad nauseum. However, having been on the receiving end of some of the vitriol, I agree with Paul -- it's time to clean up our act and get back to the original principles upon which this forum was founded.

Pathfinder09 · Post by **Pathfinder09** » Thu May 08, 2008 9:54 am

Roger That!

Noah Zark · Post by **Noah Zark** » Thu May 08, 2008 9:58 am

Aye, aye, sir.

No harm in mid-course corrections every now and again in order to get things back on the rails.

Noah

RSY · Post by **RSY** » Thu May 08, 2008 10:02 am

Whether the tone is palatable, or not, all the threads/arguments in question are valid and have their place. But, not here.

I do not come here to engage in political or philosophical conflicts with folks. I am a big enough boy that my opinions are pretty solidly formed and no one on some web forum is going to change them. Nor does my ego require that I strut around and impugn people by telling them they're completely wrong and I'm wholly right. I assume at this point in everyone's lives they've come to some conclusion on what they believe. I'm not going to change that. Why would I want to?

I came here for leverguns...strictly. Maybe it's time we finally broke down and set up a completely different forum for the OT stuff where people who derive pleasure from such can duke it out hidden from the view of the rest of us. Or, have folks go completely elsewhere for that. Now, don't someone go and give me the old saw about "You don't have to click on it if you don't want to read it." I know that. But the mere sight of them on the main page dirties the water, in my opinion.

Scott

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Thu May 08, 2008 10:05 am

With all due respect. I've been around this forum since it was mostly just the Shootists and a few of their friends on the old site. I also quite well recall being called ignorant , a troll, and even had a thread started with the main jist of it to label me as a taliban spy

of all things. So yes I am well aquanted with the "spirit" of the forum.
I might also point out that it is for the most part the "OT" posts that have stirred the pot ,and got passions boiling to the point that apparently its more than some folks (moderators) can stand.
It's been my experience in dealing with folks that when something gets out of hand it takes some harsh measures to get things back under control. And I have been responsible for the actions and responsibilities of fairly large groups of young men , in an earlier part of my life , so I do have a bit of experience in keeping a lid on things.
If you continue to allow off topic posts , then the best thing to do is to create a seperate category for those topics, and let it run. Those that get a bloody nose or a tooth kicked loose in the OT section ,or their poor little feelings hurt, are grown folks and knew full well what might happen when they walked thru the door.
Either that or let it go like it is right now, unlock the threads that got locked up and give your best wishes to the last man standing.

Post by **AmBraCol** » Thu May 08, 2008 10:39 am

RSY wrote:I came here for leverguns...strictly. Maybe it's time we finally broke down and set up a completely different forum for the OT stuff where people who derive pleasure from such can duke it out hidden from the view of the rest of us. Or, have folks go completely elsewhere for that. Now, don't someone go and give me the old saw about "You don't have to click on it if you don't want to read it." I know that. But the mere sight of them on the main page dirties the water, in my opinion.

Scott

Scott, I just checked. http://www.onlyleverguns.com , .org , .net, etc are WIDE open! So's http://www.levergunsonly.com , etc... All it takes is registering the domain name and setting up the forum. If you build it, they will come. This forum is a testimony to THAT lil' piece of wisdom. Maybe you have a calling? Shucks I could even point you towards a good deal on hosting for your new forum... A good place to start for the domain name is http://www.godaddy.com ...

In other words, this has been hashed out ad naseum in the past. If you feel it's dirty, feel free to set up a clean one. There's plenty of room on the world wide web to set up forums to meet any range of personal desire and vision...

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Thu May 08, 2008 10:57 am

I find it very disheartening sometimes how quickly the presentation of certain undeniable facts is met with such hostility, blind denial, and refusal to investigate by otherwise good and intelligent men. Makes it hard for a man who's entire being is infused with the principles of Liberty to have any hope.

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Thu May 08, 2008 11:09 am

What good advice and thanks.
Now, If I have offended any body I wish to appolgise now, sorry guys (just in case).
Times are hard and we are in the grips of our Lords enemy for now (remember how he was cast out of the heavens to roam the earth) and so we do have our work cut out to try and follow our Christian values. Allways a rewarding goal.
Gods grace to all.
Nath.

gamekeeper · Post by **gamekeeper** » Thu May 08, 2008 11:22 am

Well said and thank you for that excellent post Paul. I see enough anger at work, don't appreciate it at home as well !

horsesoldier03 · Post by **horsesoldier03** » Thu May 08, 2008 11:22 am

I've been out of the net a bit and it looks like I have missed out on a bit.

Hopefully all can agree to your guidance. I will sure do my best as well.
Just a word of suggestion. I have been on other sites where the moderators give you warnings and after 3 warnings your OUT! Hopefully it will not have to come to that.

Poohgyrr · Post by **Poohgyrr** » Thu May 08, 2008 11:44 am

I come here for two reasons: to learn about and share stories of Leverguns, and because of the general civility of the Forum.

If I ever seem rude or whatever to anyone, I hope they let me know so I may try to explain what I meant to say & I don't mind apologizing.

If it wasn't for the folks doing all the work here, I wouldn't have nearly as much fun or learn as much about Levers. Too many good Forums have already gone away, I hope this one stays around.

Pete 22 · Post by **Pete 22** » Thu May 08, 2008 11:56 am

As you can see by my post count I typically don't have much to say. But I have to say that leverguns.com is my favorite place to "lurk", and I do so regularily. Of course the overall knowledge of firearms, not just leverguns, is the main reason for visiting...not a visit to this site goes by w/o my learning something from folks far more knowledgeable then I. BUT I truly enjoy the "OT" exchanges as well.....yes they can get a bit spicy and occasionally a bit of disrespect rears it's ugly head, but that happens when ones passions get stirred up......it happens and occasionaly someone needs to reel them in....sometimes passions over ride good judgement. We've all been there.

But Paul, I just want you to know that in this man's opinion leverguns.com is head and shoulders above any of the other sites that I regularily visit in terms of civility. I also want to thank you, and of course your fellow mods sincerely for doing a thankless job. Keep up the good work!!! I'll go back to lurking now

Pete 22

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Thu May 08, 2008 12:49 pm

Paul, sometimes you just have to

. Thanks, we probably needed that.

JerryB · Post by **JerryB** » Thu May 08, 2008 1:08 pm

Thank you Paul and Hobie for the way you keep this fine place running. I reckon that I might get a little hot when someone starts in on my Lord and Saviour and the true word of God. I will try to keep from replying to them like I have.

RSY · Post by **RSY** » Thu May 08, 2008 1:18 pm

AmBraCol wrote:
RSY wrote:I came here for leverguns...strictly. Maybe it's time we finally broke down and set up a completely different forum for the OT stuff where people who derive pleasure from such can duke it out hidden from the view of the rest of us. Or, have folks go completely elsewhere for that. Now, don't someone go and give me the old saw about "You don't have to click on it if you don't want to read it." I know that. But the mere sight of them on the main page dirties the water, in my opinion.

Scott
Scott, I just checked. http://www.onlyleverguns.com , .org , .net, etc are WIDE open! So's http://www.levergunsonly.com , etc... All it takes is registering the domain name and setting up the forum. If you build it, they will come. This forum is a testimony to THAT lil' piece of wisdom. Maybe you have a calling? Shucks I could even point you towards a good deal on hosting for your new forum... A good place to start for the domain name is http://www.godaddy.com ...

In other words, this has been hashed out ad naseum in the past. If you feel it's dirty, feel free to set up a clean one. There's plenty of room on the world wide web to set up forums to meet any range of personal desire and vision...

Paul:

I should have qualified my position by reminding everyone that what I described is exactly how it was around here back in March 2003 when I first registered on the old forum. The vaunted "OT" topics didn't show up for years after that. That is a fact.

I could be wrong, but it appears you are asking me to take my leave in a "love-it-or-leave-it" fashion. At the very least, I'm being told, in so many words, that this isn't "my house" so mind my manners, young man.

Well, then, adios amigos! It's been a great five years. Those of you going on the Texas Safari in August, I'll see you there. All the best to the rest.

Scott

Bluehawk · Post by **Bluehawk** » Thu May 08, 2008 1:20 pm

Some thoughts of mine
I did in fact get locked out of the topics in question in the last few days due to taking my toime ti read EVERYTHING in them before responding and then trying to take the time to form my replies to ISSUES NOT PERSONALITIES It took me to lo ng to due that before I was locked out . As my two posts on that HOPEFULLY show Im not mad It MAY have prevented me in saying something to ofend someone . That being said One of the points being made in those threads were the RIGHTS of ALL Americans in at least two amendments ( 1st and 2nd) To elimnate those OTs TO ME would inftringe on at least one of those AND that we CAN discuss these here and show a Shared interest WITH conficting opinions is what I LIKE about this forum. We are ALL gun enthusiasts but have different opinions THATS GOOD
The personal attacks because we have some diferent opinions is what we need to be polite about and not do individual attacks
We Lost Junior to such attacks I do NOT share Juniors political opinions but ALWAYS respected his RIGHT to state them without out personal attack He Did do great articles and researched things carefully and wrote great articles his abandonment of this site was a great loss. IMHO
One last thought it occurs to me that this same thing happened about 4 years ago here! IT WAS AN ELECTION YEAR !!!!!!!!!!!! Hmm could it be that our tempers and reasonging are a "little " altered by the politics being rammed down our throats this time of the year and this year in general ?????????? Are we all a little bit more senstitive than usuall .
Even a mundane coment on a baseball team started to get interesting and it was CERTAINLY done tongue in cheek !!!!!!
Paul your right we need to keep our COMMON goals and interestes in mid and remember we need to staick to gether more than argue over LITTLE points AGAIN J M H O

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Thu May 08, 2008 1:22 pm

rjohns94 wrote:thanks Paul. I appreciate your post and will comply. Don, I don't think we should exclude conversation on any topic. Its part of why we come here, to hash out daily issues in our lives with people we have come to know and trust and respect. The passion we hold in our various positions on issues can be very informative, as well as formative, for those who are not up on the topics of concern. I think any topic can be discussed with gentlemanly demeanor. Points can be made, people can disagree. No tone of the country or candidate for president gives us the right to personaly attack others here or anywhere. In this forum we talk about leverguns, pistols of all sorts, shooting concerns and politics, and politics that could affect our sport. We come to offer prayer and ask for prayer for our concerns. We comfort in times of loss, in times of job change, or times of illness. We find joy in a new "find" at the pawn store, or the birth of a child, or a great day at the range, or a funny joke. We talk about puppies and cats and horses and mules, and cows and our jobs, the places we live, the things we like to do. What we do here is family. Plain and simple. Families share all due to their closeness and trust. Thats why I journey here many times a day - to check in on family. In my opinion, no topic is OT when it comes to family. But as in family, we must conduct ourselves in a manner that retains the respect and dignity of those that call this home. Just MHO.

"What he said, + 1"

I enjoy the OT posts, even some of the 'controversial' ones, but we all need reminded that there is no need to become un-civil to one another. If you feel THAT strongly on a topic and can't keep it civil, it is highly unlikely you'll change anyone's mind anyway.

I apologize if I've ever offended anyone here, but even though I express strong opinions on ISSUES, I try never to attack INDIVIDUALS.

This forum, even when it gets 'off track' - is one of the best on the net, and we all owe thanks to our moderators for slapping us around when we get out of line. I'm sure that is a thankless and unpleasant job.

Post by **AmBraCol** » Thu May 08, 2008 1:48 pm

RSY wrote:I should have qualified my position by reminding everyone that what I described is exactly how it was around here back in March 2003 when I first registered on the old forum. The vaunted "OT" topics didn't show up for years after that. That is a fact.

I could be wrong, but it appears you are asking me to take my leave in a "love-it-or-leave-it" fashion. At the very least, I'm being told, in so many words, that this isn't "my house" so mind my manners, young man.

Well, then, adios amigos! It's been a great five years. Those of you going on the Texas Safari in August, I'll see you there. All the best to the rest.

Scott

Scott, not at all. It's just that there's plenty of room for all kinds of forums to meet all kinds of needs. I hang out on two forums and several e-mail lists - each one is different in its layout. One list is run by a "list nazi" and is VERY strict about off topic stuff. It's not much fun, but does occasionally bring in some interesting info. The "list nazi" has been sick lately and the other mods have lightened up and the list has gotten much looser and freer - it'll be interesting to see how long it lasts that way.

Anyway, my reference to the available domain names as posted in a fit of weird sense of humor. Folks can complain 'bout the way things are run, but few take it upon themselves to provide a different option or better way of doing things. We've never yet invited anyone to leave, and I apologize if that's the way you took my moment of levity. I should have put some smilies in there I guess.

:D:D:D:D So take it for what it's worth.

Here's a story of two forums.

The http://www.sixshootercommunity.com forum is found at
http://disc.yourwebapps.com/Indices/208184.html

Some folks were complaining about how there were too many religious and OT posts on it. OK. We set up a "Lite" version of the forum - guns and shooting related subjects only, no religion, no politics, etc. Funny, it gets maybe an average of one post per month - IF that many. Folks prefer the "Community" style forum where "we can discuss almost anything - politely".

http://disc.yourwebapps.com/Indices/231281.html

So that's why I've never been in a rush to set up a "leverguns only" forum - but if someone wants to take it on or finance it, we'd be glad to see what we can do to help 'em along the way. Perhaps there's a big enough community here that there'd be enough interest in such a "lite" version of this forum. ??? Anyone got $310 for a domain name and hosting to see if it'd fly???

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Thu May 08, 2008 2:40 pm

Blackhawk as has clearly just been shown by the exchange between Ambracol andRSY, when you're within the realm of a privately owned forum such as this one, your first ammendment "rights" only go so far as the person/persons incharge say the do.

I checked on this with an attorney who is not yet 60 is retired and living off of residuals from work down with firms in very tall buildings , when a similar matter came up on another forum, whereby one of the mods decided that after 2 days there will be no editing of posts, not even to correct spelling etc.

I do find it terribly funny in a strange way, an ot thread about attitudes ended up in a longtime well respected member in good standing getting told to hit the road , up until the point he said ok, and now words apparently don't mean what they said they did.
But there's no need to control OT topics at all.

BenT · Post by **BenT** » Thu May 08, 2008 3:32 pm

To me this is a recreation area. I'm not here to stir things up. I come here to relax , take a break and get info. I always approach this place with civilility.

Of coarse there is always the entertainment factor like the OT posts.

El Mac · Post by **El Mac** » Thu May 08, 2008 4:51 pm

Wilco Paul!

505stevec · Post by **505stevec** » Thu May 08, 2008 5:04 pm

Will do.

oldmax · Post by **oldmax** » Thu May 08, 2008 5:14 pm

If I offended, My apology...( I think I bashed Trolls )

Kismet · Post by **Kismet** » Thu May 08, 2008 5:52 pm

Thanks for the reminder Paul.

I found the place because I was looking for specific levergun info, but I have since found the community engaging and I have generally been impressed with the depth of thinking people do on the issues presented (despite the fact that my views are often in conflict). Things certainly get heated and I respect that as long as it does not get personal. Having gotten to know some of the personalities on the board and enjoy the broad range of topics, I think it would be a shame to limit the scope of the discussions.

Like the others I will keep trying to keep a cool head and stick to the issues!

Michael in NH

Old Time Hunter · Post by **Old Time Hunter** » Thu May 08, 2008 5:53 pm

What's that old saying???

Sitcks and stones may break my bones, but names will never harm me.

Personally I love hearing disparaging ideas, comments, and especially all the wrong opinions...knowing full well that the only right ones are mine. From some of these OT threads I believe that there has been quite a bit that opened my eyes to different perspectives on human nature.

That being said, we should be able to do this without being disrespectful. I for one miss Junior's insight from the 'other' side and also wish he would return, now if Scott leaves, that is also one whom I would miss.

Hopefully they will both reconsider.

tman · Post by **tman** » Thu May 08, 2008 6:05 pm

by far, yhe best site on the web. honored to be a member and sometimes contributer. thank u, gentleman. i'll try my best to be a gentleman.

Boreman · Post by **Boreman** » Thu May 08, 2008 9:41 pm

Thanks for the very civil reminder. Well said !!!!

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Thu May 08, 2008 9:58 pm

Will do Paul!

I apologize if I have insulted anyone - never been my intent. I know I am quite passionate about this country and our freedoms that I love more than life itself, but hope that has never lead me to be rude.

As far as topics, I love the nature of this forum. As much as I love leverguns, if this had only be so one-dimensional, I would not have stuck around, or visited that often (and I know some of you, given my propensity to post, probably wish that was the case!

). I enjoy reading about all kinds of topics. I don't have time to read them all - and skip those that don't catch my eye right away. I also stop following those that get too heated - it pains me to see members of this "family" fighting.

I have learned so much here - about leverguns, firearms and reloading in general, how others outside of the USA enjoy firearms, our history and, something I never expected - my Christian faith. Many of you here have helped me become closer to our Lord and have strengthened my faith. I can never thank you enough for that!

Charles · Post by **Charles** » Thu May 08, 2008 10:30 pm

I am in the thros of a move and a major life change, so I missed the threads that relate to this reminder.

Gossip is one of the most destructive things in our human society. I have always been against it and believing and repeating gossip has always been something I condemmed.

What I have learned is reading and repeating stuff about people we read on the internet is just another form of gossip. Now, I have been guilty of this and didn't see what I was doing because of this new source of information we call the Internet.

I got into a nasty squabble with a fellow that hangs out on this family of boards,. I got into that squabble because I believed and repeated the Internet gossip that I read. This was very wrong of me for slandering a good man.

It bothers me and embarasses me to admit to being a destructive gosipp, but I did it and am very sorry for what I did. I have apoligized but I am still bothered by my moral failure.

Just a word to the folks of this board from a fellow who learned the hard way.