POLITICS - Oil again

bunklocoempire · Post by **bunklocoempire** » Wed May 21, 2008 2:41 am

Understanding the Federal Reserve can print money out of thin air ask yourself this question. Is it more beneficial (to the powers that be and U.S. economy) to continue to be able to prop up the dollar by paying for oil in U.S. dollars through the

current process (incur debt, print money, trade dollar for oil and spread dollar around the world) or produce our own (A.N.W.R.) oil and increase production and keep those dollars at home. Seems to me we would lose our â€œfree rideâ€

donw · Post by **donw** » Wed May 21, 2008 12:53 pm

there will not be an economy left in this country if the price of oil keeps climbing like it is.

there has been more increases in the last two years than in history!

i can recall paying as little as $0.09 (NINE cents) per gallon for gasoline (that was in 1963 in texas)...now...i pay over $4.00 per gallon and the price increases DAILY, not occasionally, as was in the past. (the price went from $130 per barrell to $132 per barrell in the time it took me to write this post, BTW)

i hear reasons in the news; "the demand for oil has increased from india, china, etc..."..."supply and demand"...

i also hear in the news; "there is no shortage, the national reserve is 97% full"..."the demand is being met"..."consumption is lower now than years past..."..."there's enough oil in ANWR to supply the U.S. for a hundred years..."

the single biggest reason the prices are escalating is for PROFIT! when oil company CEO's make multi-millions and a few into the BILLIONS yearly, there's clearly a LOT of profit being realized. from what i'm seeing and hearing on the news, oil speculators are the biggest cause of the pain we feel in the economy now.

this economy is oil driven! like it or not! the more we pay for oil, the more painful it will be on our pocketbooks! guess who pays for increases in deisel to transport the nations goods to market?

good guess...you and i...the consumer...

if you think congress and state legislatures will do anything about it, i beleive you're wrong. why should they? they reap billions in taxes and fees from each and every gallon imported and pumped! that would be like you and i giving up a portion of our income!

deerwhacker444 · Post by **deerwhacker444** » Wed May 21, 2008 1:58 pm

.
Just a thought, DON'T SHOOT THE MESSENGER:

It's been said that the oil companies make 8-10 cents/gallon. I haven't been able to verify this, but that's what I've heard recently on the news.

The Federal Gas Tax is 18.4 cents/gallon. That appears to be twice the amount of money that the oil companies are making. In other words, the Feds are making out like Bandits.

When you throw in the state taxes, Oklahomans like myself are paying 35.4 cents/gallon in tax and some states, like California, pay a whopping 63.9 cents/gallon

Check Your State Gas Taxes Here

It seems to me that instead of getting all upset with the oil companies who do the actual work of getting the oil out of the ground and refined, we should first get control of this government of ours that has run amuck. Why should we have to pay so much tax on gasoline?

Although I can barely afford gas for my vehicle, I don't blame the oil companies. They're just doing what business are supposed to do,..make money. We should however, jerk a knot in the *** of all the politicians who are on the take for the oil companies. Profits are one thing, soft money under the table is another.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's the way I see it.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Wed May 21, 2008 3:11 pm

You're right deerwhacker, the politicians are ripping us off and blaming the cost on the oil companies.

Besides what we pay for gas at the pump, the oil companies THIS YEAR have paid about TWENTY-NINE BILLION DOLLARS in taxes to the dept of revenue.

So yeah, it's the taxes.

If anyone doubts that, then why is the dotgov sending out "tax rebates". I mean, it's an open admission that they taxed Americans so much that they choked the economy.

ggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Wed May 21, 2008 3:59 pm

IL = 57.9 cents per gallon in taxes. It just went over $4.00 per gallon for the cheep stuff here. Meaning that the government is making about 14.26% on each gallon we buy.

We are being robbed.

The economy WILL collapse in the not too distant future at this rate and then we will be ushered into the New World Order, by martial law.

Just wait.

Joe

gary rice · Post by **gary rice** » Wed May 21, 2008 7:23 pm

J Miller wrote:IL = 57.9 cents per gallon in taxes. It just went over $4.00 per gallon for the cheep stuff here. Meaning that the government is making about 14.26% on each gallon we buy.

We are being robbed.

The economy WILL collapse in the not too distant future at this rate and then we will be ushered into the New World Order, by martial law.

Just wait.

Joe

right, thats the idea behind it.

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Wed May 21, 2008 7:54 pm

I have a mule - but he is not for sale.

[/img]

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Wed May 21, 2008 8:13 pm

http://www.businessandmedia.org/article ... 45247.aspx

duck and cover

Quick Karl · Post by **Quick Karl** » Wed May 21, 2008 8:18 pm

Grizz wrote:http://www.businessandmedia.org/article ... 45247.aspx

duck and cover

The day it costs $200+ to fill a 19-gallon Honda... will be the day I start voting communist, since what we have is no better so we might as well give it to the honest crooks.

There will be civil and world war before $12.00 a gallon happens - hope I'm not here to see it.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Wed May 21, 2008 8:29 pm

there is a very simple solution:

1. build 100 oil refineries
2. build 100 nuke plants
3. tap every single drop of
oil, gas, and coal
anywhere our drill pipes
can reach it.
4. do this simultaneously

how to get past the obstructionists?
1. VOTE THEM OUT OF OFFICE
2. until they follow the 3-step plan

the results I would expect?
1. oil drops 50 to 60 overnight
the shorts are gonna eat that up
2. an economic boom bigger than
anything ever seen in America's history.
3. zero percent unemployment for
at least 20 years.
4. eventual energy independence
with enough local wealth to fund
real alternative energies.

if nominated I will not run,
if elected I will not stand..,
this is one for you youngsters
to get ahold of RIGHT NOW

bunklocoempire · Post by **bunklocoempire** » Wed May 21, 2008 8:42 pm

I find it highly coincidental that the President decided to invade Iraq just after Iraq had switched to selling it's oil for the euro. (2000) Of course now they accept the dollar.

I find it also highly coincidental we are considering a naval blockade of Iran, they also stopped taking dollars for oil. ('07)

Then there's Venezuala, hadn't much heard of them good bad or otherwise until, yes, they started talking of embracing the euro and finally did.(2008)

Tinfoil hat talk? Considering the national debt is around 9 trillion, yes, 9 TRILLION, is it hard to imagine not wanting to write more "bad checks" (pay other countries for their oil exclusivly in dollars).

And the smart speculators know this, thus buy the oil stocks in dollars (buying oil for dollars abroad is getting more scarce *demand* thus they make out well when they sell)

The benifit of buying oil abroad is two-fold, the oil companies (who just might be favored by our government)still get their product to market, and

the Federal Reserve (big banks also possibly favored by our government) and U.S. get to print and spend money with no responsibility, flooding the world with more dollars of decreasing value.

Supposeing that Republicans and Democrats are beholden to oil, I don't go for the 'ol democrat tree hugger EPA theories and believe it is the

'ol smoke & mirrors distraction, they are after all BOTH the government, and supposeing oil money has any influence, oil companies could make plenty profit here in the 'ol U.S., perhaps more by cutting down the shipping.

The outrageous taxes are also a pain, but don't have anything to do with the actual buying price, they're just a nice bonus.

I would encourage everyone to understand how the Federal Reserve works, and yes by the way, it is UN-Constitutional.

Does North Korea have any oil fields?

I will concede the Iraq invasion isn't for oil, however, the dollar?

Bunkloco

bunklocoempire · Post by **bunklocoempire** » Wed May 21, 2008 8:48 pm

rjohns94 wrote:I have a mule - but he is not for sale.

[/img]

Hey beautiful animal! Whats the m.p.g. and road tax, seatbelts/helmet required? Not for sale? maybe you would consider euros? Gold perhaps?:D

Bunkloco

bunklocoempire · Post by **bunklocoempire** » Wed May 21, 2008 9:09 pm

J Miller wrote:IL = 57.9 cents per gallon in taxes. It just went over $4.00 per gallon for the cheep stuff here. Meaning that the government is making about 14.26% on each gallon we buy.

We are being robbed.

The economy WILL collapse in the not too distant future at this rate and then we will be ushered into the New World Order, by martial law.

Just wait.

Joe

Let me put on my tinfoil hat (tri-cornered of course) considering the New World Order, the collapse of the dollar would be an excellent argument for a North American Union. Get 'ol Mexico (cheap labor) and Canada (more resources) together with the U.S. and create the Amero, the new currency to create out of thin air (like our dollar-but with a little more credibility for a while-due to combined GNP) and exploit the new currency as well. The good 'ol euro and Europeon Union are an excellent example. Screw sovereignty and run up more debt. Or, would we keep our sovereignty, suck it up, and get back to fiscal responsibility and the gold standard?

Which solution do you think our current "leaders" (Repubs and Democrats) would choose?

Bunkloco

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Wed May 21, 2008 9:29 pm

thanks, he runs all day on grass and carrots!!! I ride him bare back, so no saddle and we are helmet optional state. His name is jerimiah, we are best buds.

I purchased him earlier this year based on a a question put out on this forum about the best back pack. Some one suggested a mule and well ..... here he is.

Jeeps · Post by **Jeeps** » Wed May 21, 2008 9:41 pm

bunklocoempire wrote:
J Miller wrote:IL = 57.9 cents per gallon in taxes. It just went over $4.00 per gallon for the cheep stuff here. Meaning that the government is making about 14.26% on each gallon we buy.

We are being robbed.

The economy WILL collapse in the not too distant future at this rate and then we will be ushered into the New World Order, by martial law.

Just wait.

Joe
Let me put on my tinfoil hat (tri-cornered of course) considering the New World Order, the collapse of the dollar would be an excellent argument for a North American Union. Get 'ol Mexico (cheap labor) and Canada (more resources) together with the U.S. and create the Amero, the new currency to create out of thin air (like our dollar-but with a little more credibility for a while-due to combined GNP) and exploit the new currency as well. The good 'ol euro and Europeon Union are an excellent example. Screw sovereignty and run up more debt. Or, would we keep our sovereignty, suck it up, and get back to fiscal responsibility and the gold standard?

Which solution do you think our current "leaders" (Repubs and Democrats) would choose?

Bunkloco

I got my tin-foil hat on right here with ya bro.

It's either that or OPEC is doing what DEBEERS has always done, hold back
supply to make the cost skyrocket.

There are people in Govt. who know EXACTLY what is going on and refuse
to allow the "average Joe-citizen" to know about it. Money is flying everywhere
and they keep sucking on us like leaches.

But don't forget, if it hurts US real bad and we stop being the "consumers" the
world counts on to keep their economies going then we will be the last to go
down, at least that's what I'm betting on. (crossed fingers)

Thunder50 · Post by **Thunder50** » Wed May 21, 2008 9:55 pm

I think TWENTY NINE BILLION is what the oil companies make in ONE quarter of the year. That means that they sell the equivalent of two hundred ninety billion gallons of gasoline. CEO's make mult-millions, but you have to look at what the companies produce.
Now look at governments. They sit on their rears and collect nearly ONE HUNDRED BILLION in taxes and don't do a thing but hold out their hands and grab the money. This is just in ONE Quarter (3 months). So the governments get nearly FOUR HUNDRED BILLION dollars for doing nothing. This doesn't count the royalties they receive from production on public lands
Maybe each congressperson should be "grilled" like they did the CEO's today. Make them sweat to answer people who have a clue what is going on, instead of the "dog and pony show" they are putting on, to fool people to think that they acutally care about what is going on.

Old Time Hunter · Post by **Old Time Hunter** » Wed May 21, 2008 10:11 pm

Me thinks that Bunkloco is not that far off...get your tin hats, boys!

Grizz is probably correct too!

Funny that Mr. Bush was just turned down by the Saudi family when he asked for them to increase production. Especially interesting is the comment by an OPEC official that off handedly said "why should we decrease our oil resources when the US is sitting on more oil than they could ever use, but don't want to until the rest of the world's reserves are gone".

Also interesting that 70% of the crude pulled from US territory in Alaska goes elswhere in the world than staying in the US. Some one please explain that.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Wed May 21, 2008 10:31 pm

Mike,

that animal is beautiful and he looks friendly. is there such a thing as a friendly mule? yours looks great.

how much food does he need? I have a small back yard that I guess jeremiah could crop to dust in an afternoon. if transportation goes belly up then hiring feed cartage would offset the benefits.

the only mule I tried to ride tried to kill me. big joke of my hosts, so I need some positive reinforcement before I can buy a mule. but I'm thinking about it.

Grizz

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Wed May 21, 2008 10:57 pm

Grizz,

He loves people and is just the most wonderful animal. He grazes in the pasture most days, and in addition, he gets about 3/4 scoop of oats, and two slices of hay, two times a day. Riding a mule is a different ride than a horse, I find it much more steady and comfortable. "J" is very curious, smart, and loves to be around people. I don't use a bit with him and he listens pretty well most of the time. The bottom picture was taken as I was sitting in the pasture. He ate all around me, and eventually came over and nearly crawled into my lap. We have bonded pretty well over the several months.

mike

gary rice · Post by **gary rice** » Thu May 22, 2008 1:03 am

he is a pretty baby.

KWK · Post by **KWK** » Thu May 22, 2008 3:58 am

The day it costs $200+ to fill a 19-gallon Honda, will be the day I start voting communist

Now that will solve the problem! Let's see, under the Soviets, Russians had few cars and little gasoline...

There will be civil and world war before $12.00 a gallon happens

Due to taxes, it's over $9/gal here in the U.K., and there's no sign of revolution as far as I can see.

The current rise seems likely to include a speculative bubble, but when it pops, I doubt it will fall much below $100.

Without a big, long recession, demand will likely outstrip supply within two decades, so prepare for astronomical prices in our lifetime. Changing the wages of oil CEO's won't do anything to change that.

The Russians and the Middle Easterners have the bulk of the world's supplies, and those governments will be quite willing to jockey deliveries to keep supply very close to demand. The standard of living in Saudi Arabia has been falling, and so they have every incentive to keep supplies tight.

I've yet to see any verified claims that we in the U.S. have any mammoth supplies untapped, and even if we did, it would be to our benefit to sell production on the world market at high prices. As long as prices are high in the world, they will be high in the U.S.

RIHMFIRE · Post by **RIHMFIRE** » Thu May 22, 2008 6:47 am

rjohns94 wrote:I have a mule - but he is not for sale.

[/img]

Look .....its Hillary

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Thu May 22, 2008 8:18 am

Awww, poor Jeremiah!!! That's a Independent Mule Rimfire and is very sensitive to such verbal abuse.

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Thu May 22, 2008 8:42 am

rjohns94 wrote:I have a mule - but he is not for sale.

[/img]

That is a fine, sturdy looking mule sir. However, I hope you don't mind if I suggest having a farrier do some trimming on his hooves before he comes up lame.

bunklocoempire · Post by **bunklocoempire** » Thu May 22, 2008 2:22 pm

RIHMFIRE, hope your not laughing at rjohns94's mule.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=2ldZxQ3Md70

Bunkloco

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Thu May 22, 2008 5:14 pm

Sore Shoulder, I don't mind, in fact, I have had the Farrier out several times. When I rescued him he was shoed incorrectly. In fact, the amish owner had shoed his front hooves with rear shoes, and then trimmed his hoof to match. When I got him, i had the shoes removed and my farrier recomnended we let his hooves grow out. As you can see in the full shot, his left hoof is kinda clubby and in that picture has a large crack, and the right is severly sloped out, all caused by poor shoing and maintenance. The pictures are two months old and taken just after getting him. This past week, in an effort to do corrective maintenance on his hooves and to get him off his heels, we severly trimmed back each shoe on the front and had epoxy/kevlar shoes with pads put on. Very expensive but it will allow his hooves to grow out properly and to regain balance up front for him. His rear is in good shape and he is well balanced. Thanks for your suggestion. I was angered at the condition of his hooves when I first saw him and knew we were in for a long corrective period. He is doing much better just three days after the procedure and his new front shoes are doing very well for him. Thanks again for the suggestion.

Quick Karl · Post by **Quick Karl** » Thu May 22, 2008 5:46 pm

KWK wrote:
The day it costs $200+ to fill a 19-gallon Honda, will be the day I start voting communist
Now that will solve the problem! Let's see, under the Soviets, Russians had few cars and little gasoline...

I'm glad you comprehend rhetoric so well.

KWK wrote:
There will be civil and world war before $12.00 a gallon happens
Due to taxes, it's over $9/gal here in the U.K., and there's no sign of revolution as far as I can see.

I don't care what they pay in the U.K. - it's just another example of how poorly socialism works and how passive the people have become.

I've yet to see any verified claims that we in the U.S. have any mammoth supplies untapped, and even if we did, it would be to our benefit to sell production on the world market at high prices. As long as prices are high in the world, they will be high in the U.S.

Make up your mind, either you live in the U.K. or you live in the US. The fact is that we are being screwed over by our socialist congress and yes, big oil will raise the price till we scream, to get the permits to drill locally, like every other country on earth is doing...

And let's not forget that these socialist dolts have played perfectly into the hands of big oil, because the price is never going to go down, and they will continue to earn record profits off the oil they drill at home... they don't have idiots running oil companies like the idiots that run congress.

Another fine example of socialism doing it's finest to screw people while telling them they are helping - always the same.

Peter M. Eick · Post by **Peter M. Eick** » Sat May 24, 2008 1:18 pm

Guys,

Before you keep pouncing on the oil industry lets consider things a bit.

Does gas costs more? Yep
Does lead costs more? Yep
Does gold costs more? Yep
Does powder costs more? Yep
Does food costs more? Yep
Do cars costs more? Yep
Do clothes costs more? Yep
Does everything costs more? Yep

Could it be that the standard that measure value by is worth less? Yep.

The bottom line is the dollar is worth less vs. other international measures of value like gold, oil, food, lead, powder and dang near anything else.

The problem is that we are pumping out US dollars to prop up wall street and bad housing loans and so the price of everything went up.

You want the price of oil to come down, then get the Fed to allow some serious deflation and the price will come back down a bit. That won't every happen, so get used to it.

gary rice · Post by **gary rice** » Sat May 24, 2008 1:52 pm

rjohns94 wrote:Sore Shoulder, I don't mind, in fact, I have had the Farrier out several times. When I rescued him he was shoed incorrectly. In fact, the amish owner had shoed his front hooves with rear shoes, and then trimmed his hoof to match. When I got him, i had the shoes removed and my farrier recomnended we let his hooves grow out. As you can see in the full shot, his left hoof is kinda clubby and in that picture has a large crack, and the right is severly sloped out, all caused by poor shoing and maintenance. The pictures are two months old and taken just after getting him. This past week, in an effort to do corrective maintenance on his hooves and to get him off his heels, we severly trimmed back each shoe on the front and had epoxy/kevlar shoes with pads put on. Very expensive but it will allow his hooves to grow out properly and to regain balance up front for him. His rear is in good shape and he is well balanced. Thanks for your suggestion. I was angered at the condition of his hooves when I first saw him and knew we were in for a long corrective period. He is doing much better just three days after the procedure and his new front shoes are doing very well for him. Thanks again for the suggestion.

permits to drill for oil locally, thats the key phrase. ill say it again, if bush could or were to sign an executive order to lift restictions of all this environmental stuff today, the price of oil would open down $50 bux a barrel tuesday morning.

TomD · Post by **TomD** » Sat May 24, 2008 2:25 pm

"Does everything costs more? Yep"

You want to know how much it is up? I can tell you, at least for Canada. 1.7% over the last year. Food doubles, housing is still on a tear up here, gas doubled, over the last few years. Cost of living is up 1.7%. And the cost of money is nice and low too. I think another thing they have learned to do is falsify the acounting on inflation.

Quick Karl · Post by **Quick Karl** » Sat May 24, 2008 2:36 pm

Do you think the higher cost of oil and food is going to hurt Bush? Cheney? or Hillary?

The exact people you cast your vote for this coming election, are the very same people who are screwing you - but if you believe what you hear them say while on TV, you deserve to get screwed.

And I bet that is precisely what these candidates think, that if you are dumb enough to keep believing what they say, and keep perpetuating the "system", then you deserve to get screwed out of every penny they can screw you for.

KWK · Post by **KWK** » Sat May 24, 2008 4:02 pm

Make up your mind, either you live in the U.K. or you live in the US.

Figure it out. On business, Americans sometimes live overseas temporarily.

to get the permits to drill locally, like every other country on earth is doing

I've looked without success for documented proof of massive reserves within the US. Do you have it? What I've seen isn't promising, maybe a few decades at best.

Serious energy shortages loom. Get ready for a lower standard of living. My grandparents lived on less energy; so can we. It's nothing to wail about. Good grief, the US can be self sufficient in oil at the current production levels; it only requires smaller houses, smaller cars, fewer trips--nothing our ancestors would have been worried about.

Quick Karl · Post by **Quick Karl** » Sat May 24, 2008 5:13 pm

KWK wrote:I've looked without success for documented proof of massive reserves within the US. Do you have it? What I've seen isn't promising, maybe a few decades at best.

So anything you can't find documented truth about is abjectly false? You're the perfect government lackey.

I tend to be suspect of everything any politician says.

Some folks say we have massive reserves in Alaska -- who's telling the truth and who is telling lies? Who makes money on the circumstance?

Bruce Scott · Post by **Bruce Scott** » Sat May 24, 2008 5:38 pm

Country Western Australia (250 k from the state capital) yesterday: Diesel 179.9 cents per litre. If my arithmetic is right that's US$6.53 per gallon -

Love the mule -

.

KWK · Post by **KWK** » Sat May 24, 2008 6:00 pm

So anything you can't find documented truth about is abjectly false? You're the perfect government lackey.

No, I'm saying only it's not proven. You're the perfect paranoid.

Some folks say we have massive reserves in Alaska

Some folks still say the earth is flat. Estimates I've read about are the North Slope can meet current US consumption for about 5 years.

Who makes money on the circumstance?

Anyone who's invested in oil, and most people's retirement savings are in part invested so.

High prices effectively result in rationing. It's a better way of dealing with shortages than government ration coupons or subsidies, etc.

Quick Karl · Post by **Quick Karl** » Sat May 24, 2008 6:09 pm

KWK wrote:High prices effectively result in rationing. It's a better way of dealing with shortages than government ration coupons or subsidies, etc.

If you believe that you should stay in the U.K.

A TRUE free market, that wasn't being manipulated by tyrants, or hampered by leftist sissies that believe in fairytales, would solve the problem by itself.

It horrifies me that so many of our citizens have become so incredibly naive.

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Sat May 24, 2008 6:57 pm

Maybe someone could answer this for me about the oil. If the problem is supply and demand why was there an oil well drilled on my mom's place in S.W. Fla 22 years ago that has never had the first barrel of oil pumped out of it? I'm not trying to be smart. She'd like to know as well. when they were doing the exploration ( that's what they call it) they kept telling her how much she'd be making in royalties when the well came in. Well they found the oil then caped it.

bunklocoempire · Post by **bunklocoempire** » Sat May 24, 2008 7:13 pm

TomD wrote:"Does everything costs more? Yep"

You want to know how much it is up? I can tell you, at least for Canada. 1.7% over the last year. Food doubles, housing is still on a tear up here, gas doubled, over the last few years. Cost of living is up 1.7%. And the cost of money is nice and low too. I think another thing they have learned to do is falsify the acounting on inflation.

I think another thing they have learned to do is falsify the acounting on inflation.

This is true. Each administration in America has shaved a point here and a point there on their reporting.

Bunkloco

bunklocoempire · Post by **bunklocoempire** » Sat May 24, 2008 7:31 pm

Rusty wrote:Maybe someone could answer this for me about the oil. If the problem is supply and demand why was there an oil well drilled on my mom's place in S.W. Fla 22 years ago that has never had the first barrel of oil pumped out of it? I'm not trying to be smart. She'd like to know as well. when they were doing the exploration ( that's what they call it) they kept telling her how much she'd be making in royalties when the well came in. Well they found the oil then caped it.

From a strategic point one would want to use other countries oil first.

Economy wise it is more benificial (for the FederalReserve and our fiscally irresponsible government) to keep proping up our fiat currency, that is sending the deflating dollar overseas. Keep writing the checks and hope they never clear the bank.

The practice of all this aid we send to foreign countries also backs this up.With a 9 trillion dollar deficit we clearly can't afford to "help", but through

the World Bank and the IMF we get to perpetuate the dollar, there is always strings attached with our "help".

The practice of insane entitlements we clearly can't afford backs this up. (Dems)

The insane practice of bailing out banks and financial companies backs this up. (Repubs)

Some country switches to NOT accepting the dollar for oil and see what happens next. Iraq, Iran, Venuzuala. Coincidence?

Oil seems to be pegged to the price of gold, OPEC does adjust their output to keep their oil priced high enough to compete with the inflation that WE'RE exporting to all of THEM.

Add in the speculaters and that's where we're at.

Ron Paul is the only candidate who talks of getting back to the gold standard. And hasn't dropped out.

It's fun to talk about Repubs vs. Dems with drilling and refineing here at home, but really, do you think they want to level with us and control spending or continue like they are?

Our Government with the Federal Reserve printing money at will = NO FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY.

And again, the Federal Reserve is UN-Constitutional.

Bunkloco (of course this is all speculation

)

KWK · Post by **KWK** » Sun May 25, 2008 3:23 am

If the problem is supply and demand why was there an oil well drilled on my mom's place in S.W. Fla 22 years ago that has never had the first barrel of oil pumped out of it?

It's likely as simple as they didn't think they'd get enough oil out of it to make it worth their while. As they drill down, they (hopefully) find oil at various depths, in various rock formations, and at various pressures. If it's a large source and in a rock that doesn't require water injection or other expenses, they'd use it now. If it requires injection, etc. to extract it and if it appears small, it's not worth it at the current price--in other words, there's better places to invest. As the price rises, that will change.

It never ceases to amaze me the amount of paranoia you see here. To make a sustained, artificial shortage of oil from free-world sources requires the collusion of tens of thousands of people. Even in a single large company you can't attain that for any length of time.The far simpler explanation is that demand has simply started to bump into supply. Markets always panic at such times as traders feel around trying to gauge the extent. Could drilling forestall this? Sure, but for how long? I'm all in favor of exploration and drilling in the US, but we've been exploring and drilling for decades now. Off the coast isn't too well explored I've read, but is it likely to contain another Saudi Arabia? If it did, do we want to burn it in SUV's, minivans, and big pick-up trucks; or do we want to sell it to foreigners for a big price? Given our foreign debts, it's clearly better to sell. I'd like to know what's out there, so we can gauge how much change is necessary.

With much of the world's oil not in free hands, manipulation is easier--and a fact of life.

It's obvious oil will run short someday. Other parts of the world are drilling like mad, and we're still coming up short. Our efforts inside the US aren't likely to put off the inevitable for more than a few decades. So it goes; it's not the end of the world.

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Sun May 25, 2008 7:18 am

Quick Karl,

Would you mind toning down your comments that are reading like personal attacks on those posting here. This is no place for that. you can make your points with out the harsh words to anyone that comments.

thanks

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Sun May 25, 2008 7:24 am

Agreed.

I would say we are all Americans and all have similar hopes and fears. The former is not accurate - we have levergunners from all over the world participating here. The latter is still spot on - I think, regardless of where we come from, the levergunscommunity.com is a refuge for fellowship by those who love freedom, family, honor, justice, and, of course, fine leverguns and other firearms. As such, we make up something of an extended family. I know arguments in families can be quite heated and personal at times, but that is not how this forum was designed to operate. Difficult topics are always welcome - even when they are clearly OT - as long as they are discussed in a restrained, mature, respectful manner, and logical manner. Those topics often enrich us as whole, and we are all made better for the thought-provoking they inspire. Personal attacks never do...

Quick Karl · Post by **Quick Karl** » Sun May 25, 2008 9:53 am

KWK wrote:
The day it costs $200+ to fill a 19-gallon Honda, will be the day I start voting communist
Now that will solve the problem! Let's see, under the Soviets, Russians had few cars and little gasoline...

There will be civil and world war before $12.00 a gallon happens
Due to taxes, it's over $9/gal here in the U.K., and there's no sign of revolution as far as I can see.

Gentlemen,

When someone attempts to undermine my legitimacy and patriotism by intentionally misinterpreting what is, and clearly was, a rhetorical statement, it tends to inspire sharp responses from me, especially when we in the US are asked to compare ourselves to they in the U.K. -- as if what someone pays for gas in some social failure of a country should matter to me or our circumstance in the US -- and it furthermore affronts me when an American starts comparing the US to Europe -- they are responsible for whom they have elected to lead them, and we are responsible for whom we have elected to lead us.

Although we remain a great country, we are no longer close to what we ought to be, and we are clearly slipping each day, down into the muck of politically correct average-ism, because people keep voting for entitlements, giving power to those they claim they dislike. Anyone that canâ€™t see that, is looking with their eyes closed.

When you think the government owes you something, or that you have a right to a more comfortable life because someone else in America made themselves wealthy, YOU are the problem, YOU are the one empowering those that would reduce your rights, and I have nothing but utter and complete contempt for you.

And when you think the government wont lie to you, you deserve what you get.

Never affront my patriotism, gentlemen.

Karl

Old Time Hunter · Post by **Old Time Hunter** » Sun May 25, 2008 10:16 am

Quick Karl, you do not seem to understand that oil is a global commodity in general and not one of sovereignty. Please refrain from making attacks on our brethern elsewhere, it makes us all look bad. Not all here have the same political disposition but there is no warrant to show prejudice against any one that does not follow your beliefs.

The US Geological Survey actually reported a finding saying that there was enough shale oil in North Dakota, Montana, and Wyoming to sustain current levels of consumption for a hundred years. The problem is the cost of extraction and the environmental impact is too great. I believe I read that in the current National Geographic magazine...I'll have to dig for it(ha..ha!). The point is though, we as Americans (Canadians included), are indoctrinated into having cheap, easy fuel and we all have to change our consumption habits to have at least moderate access to the things we like to do in the future.

Wrangler John · Post by **Wrangler John** » Sun May 25, 2008 11:20 am

There are forces in this country that don't want you to have inexpensive and abundant fuel. The reside mainly in the environmental and left of center power structure, read Democratic Party leadership. I worked for a major California County as a Park Ranger for 32 years, over those years I witnessed a shift in attitude of the statewide leadership from "can do" to one that resembles chatter in the day room of an asylum. Here are some of the conversations:

"Yes, it was that white male Judeo-Christian ethic that caused the problem!" A female State DF&G biologist relative to clear cutting a redwood forest. No, it was the tax laws that taxed standing trees.

"County Offers Ride to Work Subsidy." Pays for mass transit tickets for employees.

"We don't want people driving SUV's. They shouldn't be allowed to own them." A County Official in an overheard conversation.

"We scaled back plans for the new parking garage to force people to use SamTrans and CalTrain. If they can't park, then they won't be able to drive to work." Now they have trouble recruiting employees.

"We will provide bike racks and incentives for employees to bike to work." Great, then they can bike in from Vacaville and Tracy! Most employees lived out of county because of home prices.

They sent out questionnaires asking if you drove work, where did you drive from, how many time a week, would you switch to mass transit? Most went in the wastebaskets.

In general, the leftists don't want you driving so they manipulate the domestic supply through environmental regulation and the insanity of Global Warming hysteria. In California they are trying to do the same thing with handguns, license their "fuel," the ammunition, by limiting purchases to 50 rounds a month, require a license to buy it, and charge a transaction tax on each sale. If you can't buy ammunition, you can't "run" your gun. If fuel is expensive they force you to buy a smaller "eco-friendly" car, park it and take transit, or simply stay at home. It's all about power, preventing development of domestic supply and refining capacity to control our behavior - never mind our liberty. And with control of the schools they are brainwashing our children to think their way.

And fools that we are, we accept political parties as the preferred way politics should be structured, and then become slaves to one or the other. George Washington warned about parties, declaring that politicians would have two masters - and would serve the party before the people. With the current Stupid Generation in charge - you are reduced to two alternatives: Vote them out, or submit and relinquish your liberty.

Quick Karl · Post by **Quick Karl** » Sun May 25, 2008 11:32 am

Wrangler John wrote:There are forces in this country that don't want you to have inexpensive and abundant fuel. The reside mainly in the environmental and left of center power structure, read Democratic Party leadership. I worked for a major California County as a Park Ranger for 32 years, over those years I witnessed a shift in attitude of the statewide leadership from "can do" to one that resembles chatter in the day room of an asylum. Here are some of the conversations:

"Yes, it was that white male Judeo-Christian ethic that caused the problem!" A female State DF&G biologist relative to clear cutting a redwood forest. No, it was the tax laws that taxed standing trees.

"County Offers Ride to Work Subsidy." Pays for mass transit tickets for employees.

"We don't want people driving SUV's. They shouldn't be allowed to own them." A County Official in an overheard conversation.

"We scaled back plans for the new parking garage to force people to use SamTrans and CalTrain. If they can't park, then they won't be able to drive to work." Now they have trouble recruiting employees.

"We will provide bike racks and incentives for employees to bike to work." Great, then they can bike in from Vacaville and Tracy! Most employees lived out of county because of home prices.

They sent out questionnaires asking if you drove work, where did you drive from, how many time a week, would you switch to mass transit? Most went in the wastebaskets.

In general, the leftists don't want you driving so they manipulate the domestic supply through environmental regulation and the insanity of Global Warming hysteria. In California they are trying to do the same thing with handguns, license their "fuel," the ammunition, by limiting purchases to 50 rounds a month, require a license to buy it, and charge a transaction tax on each sale. If you can't buy ammunition, you can't "run" your gun. If fuel is expensive they force you to buy a smaller "eco-friendly" car, park it and take transit, or simply stay at home. It's all about power, preventing development of domestic supply and refining capacity to control our behavior - never mind our liberty. And with control of the schools they are brainwashing our children to think their way.

And fools that we are, we accept political parties as the preferred way politics should be structured, and then become slaves to one or the other. George Washington warned about parties, declaring that politicians would have two masters - and would serve the party before the people. With the current Stupid Generation in charge - you are reduced to two alternatives: Vote them out, or submit and relinquish your liberty.

You have my utmost respect, sir.

I might like to add that I believe Big Oil to be as corrupt-minded as government & socialist/leftist/democrats, and that they are playing the system to their best benefit.

I believe whole-heartedly that the price is going up for no other reason than to pressure the dolts in Congress to allow Big Oil to drill at home - of course the socialist/leftist/democrats, being completely clueless, care not what the cost is, because in their warped view of the world, the government will fix the problem by subsidizing it, with money they take from motivated people that actually work for a living, as opposed to those in government showing-up to browse the internet and drink coffee.

Peter M. Eick · Post by **Peter M. Eick** » Sun May 25, 2008 11:56 am

First off let me respond to Karl. If you think we are corrupt minded, I would like to know how? We are just in business to provide you the energy to write on the net. I don't see how you think we are corrupt?

Have you worked for a major oil company and seen how we operate? Do you know how hard it would be to get all 38,000 of us in just one company to keep a secret even if we were trying to be corrupt? I mean come on here. Just think about it. That is illogical that all of us could be corrupt and out to mess with the country. It is too hard to pull off. Then you have the problem that my company has to get an agreement with all of the other oil companies to do this. Trust me when I say that the feds look out for this as it is called "collusion" and they take a dim view of it.

Seriously though Karl. If you think we are corrupt, I am sorry about that. I suggest that you not use any of our products as they are implicitly corrupt also.

A couple of points here.

Yes there is a lot of oil in ANWR. I worked for 7 years on ANWR as my main job looking for Oil there. The question left to be answered is it economic. Only the feds will let us find out the answer when we drill it someday. My guess is about 10 BBOE or a bit less then Prudhoe as a P50.

Yes there is oil in the shale of North Dakota etc. But to produce it with current technology we will need to drill on 5 to 10 acre spacing (give or take). Now picture say 64 wells per square mile for an area from Canada to say kansas. Now that ought to drive an enviro nuts.

I look at this pragmatically. Those of us in the industry know this is about devaluation of the dollar and supply and demand. Both have to be fixed to get the prices back reasonable and neither will be addressed by our current or future government. Thus this situation will go on a long time in my opinion. Think of the Carter years in Rev. II. I have already heard windfall profits, next will come the old double nickel speed limit and sweaters in the winter.

The problem I see is the Dem's don't promote the upside here. Look, we are cutting consumption, we are reducing our CO2 output, we are reducing our trade deficit by buying less oil, we are cutting our frivolous spending down to pay for basic goods like gas and food. We are starting to focus on substance again and quality. Air travel is down and yes you can start to walk in the airports again. While I did not see it yet, I have read that car travel is down and soon our roads will be less crowded.

I mean, come on, if you step back from this and really look at it, is this not what the democrats have been promoting for years? Save the environment, conserve/reduce our greanhouse gases and Kyoto.

Heck if I did not work in the industry and know better, I would suspect that this whole oil price run up was a conspiracy by the government to protect us and the environment.

Then again, maybe it is???????

Quick Karl · Post by **Quick Karl** » Sun May 25, 2008 12:14 pm

Peter M. Eick wrote:First off let me respond to Karl. If you think we are corrupt minded, I would like to know how? We are just in business to provide you the energy to write on the net. I don't see how you think we are corrupt?

Sir,

When Exxon-Mobile is earning record profits while the economy is tumbling and the cost of gasoline is doubling - there is a rotten fish stinking up the kitchen.

You, as an individual employee, may very well be honest and sincere, but until you are sitting on the board of your company, and then actually come clean with the strategies of that inner sanctum, I will remain a skeptic.

Robber-barons have been plaguing the people for the entire history of man, it's no different today.

The folks at Enron seemed to pull the wool over all their thousands of employees eyes...

No disrespect to you.

bunklocoempire · Post by **bunklocoempire** » Sun May 25, 2008 2:32 pm

Quick Karl wrote:
Peter M. Eick wrote:First off let me respond to Karl. If you think we are corrupt minded, I would like to know how? We are just in business to provide you the energy to write on the net. I don't see how you think we are corrupt?
Sir,

When Exxon-Mobile is earning record profits while the economy is tumbling and the cost of gasoline is doubling - there is a rotten fish stinking up the kitchen.

You, as an individual employee, may very well be honest and sincere, but until you are sitting on the board of your company, and then actually come clean with the strategies of that inner sanctum, I will remain a skeptic.

Robber-barons have been plaguing the people for the entire history of man, it's no different today.

The folks at Enron seemed to pull the wool over all their thousands of employees eyes...

No disrespect to you.

When Exxon-Mobile is earning record profits while the economy is tumbling and the cost of gasoline is doubling - there is a rotten fish stinking up the kitchen.

And wouldn't ya know, Exxon happens to be an owner of the Federal Reserve. Twice removed cousin perhaps, but bottom line, what's good
for the Federal Reserve is good for Exxon.

Bunkloco

Peter M. Eick · Post by **Peter M. Eick** » Mon May 26, 2008 9:50 am

I have to ask how? How can we be seriously manipulating the price of oil?

Just think about it. If we as the major oil companies wanted to manipulate the price of gas, why would we stop at $4 a gallon? Why not $10?

So, I want to manipulate the price of oil. Lets see, I need to get all of the CEO's from every other major oil company here in the US and Canada, all of the OPEC boys, all of the other NOC's (National oil companies, Russian companies, European companies etc.) to all agree to raise the prices.

Just think how hard that would be to do? And if any one of them starts cheating, (like OPEC always does) then what happens? The price goes down because supply is more available. The only way to keep the price up is for all of us to work together and everyone be happy and not cheat.

So do you really think that Iran, Venezuela, and others are going to go along with US major oil companies and run up the price of oil? Just think about that for a minute.

Oh and by the way, we are going to do all of this without the newspapers and governments catching us and going public? Yeah, right!

What is so hard to believe that just maybe we are running out of the stuff and maybe, just maybe, there is a teensy teensy possibility that the days of cheap energy are over.