Levergun cartridges on life-support

[victor]

I stumbled upon this article today(from Apr. 2007).
This guy wants to see our favorite levergun cartridges taken off
life-support. Must be a bolt-action guy.Check it out.
http://www.gunsandammomag.com/classics/ ... index.html

[crs]

Yes, I saw it back then - what a party-pooper he is.

[Chuck 100 yd]

I remember seeing it also. I even read a couple lines. As an author he is hurting if that kind of stuff is all he can come up with.

[41_Marlin]

Just think what that would do to the value
of what folks around here have stashed.

[John in MS]

About the sort of drivel I would expect from Guns and Blammo. Barf.

I got as far as "what's with the .22 Hornet? Why is it still around?" and realized this
joker doesn't have a CLUE. The Hornet is coming on stronger than ever as low-noise,
less powerful cartridges are increasing in importance where tracts of land are smaller
and areas are more settled. I just nailed some groundhogs in PA in a farming region
using a c. 1935 Winchester Model 54 Hornet with its original 6X Fecker small game scope a few weeks ago. For certain farms, the Hornet is absolutely outstanding. When I was shooting on the back end of one smallish farm, my partner could not near me up by the house at the front. Making less noise also scares the groundhogs in adjoining fields less, so you get more shots, faster as they don't head underground as much. It is very efficient and cost-effective to reload, and in quality rifles, can give surprising accuracy. My Win. 54 with very old Super-X ammo (so old it has dome-shaped primers!) or 35 gr. V-Max handloads, gives sub-MOA accuracy routinely out to 200 yards, again with the little Fecker scope.

The .223, .22-250, etc. all have their place, but so does the Hornet. Articles like this
remind me of why I dropped the "news-stand" gun magazines back in 1985. Sure haven't
missed them, either!!!!

To quote Bugs Bunny, "What a maroon."
John

[Ysabel Kid]

Just stiring up a debate!

[AJMD429]

Just stiring up a debate!

Yep - that's exactly what they do; I don't take it personally - they KNOW it will get people responding, arguing, and provide the foundation for next month's article. "Revolver vs. Auto" "Bolt vs. Lever" "Magnum vs. Standard" - they go through the same topics every couple of years. Fun for light reading, but I do prefer the 'meatier' magazines.

[gundownunder]

Realistically speaking none of those cartridges are on life support.
Manufacturers will only make rifles or ammo as long as we buy enough of them to make it economicaly viable, if we stop buying they stop making. The writer points out that the hornet and bee are on borrowed time because we have the 223, what he fails to see is the 223 uses twice as much powder, makes twice as much noise and sends bullets twice as far across farmers paddocks. As wide open spaces get harder to find I see a lot of reasons to stick to shorter range and quieter calibres.
The 218 especially has a good future ahead of it, if only Marlin would do another run of them so those of us in USA and Oz could fulfill our need.
We have a gunsmith at our club who has back orders to make up as many 1894 218 conversions as he can find parts for. He finished one a couple weeks ago and I asked if I could have it and he told me I was 60th on the list, I hope he was kidding

[Kansas Ed]

Hmmm....if the name fits....I'm speaking of the Author....Hack..er...

Ed

[Andrew]

Well, I have never fired any of those cartridges but he still sounds like a goober to me. I agree about the .45 GAP. I don't get it either.

[William]

I guess he doesn't reload either.

[Old Savage]

Anti Virus for that Hacker

[model55]

Was just musing yeasterday that with the new rubber tip bullets for lever guns wouldn't a 22 hornet lever gun be a cool idea! Gun mags are in it for the money so they have to stir the pot.They seem to miss the point of the older guns/ cartridges.Most of my guns are older then me and would be older still if I could afford the habit.

[CraigC]

It's G&A, it hasn't been worth the paper it was printed on for a long time. Rick Hacker is a good writer but that article is the kind of juvenile nonsense that is to be expected of G&A.

[Blaine]

I don't read the monthlys anymore..Not for a long time. If I need to know something, I'll ask here, mostly, so TERRY MURBACH can yell at me for not using the seach or buying a book to find out

[TomD]

Opening on the hornet was laughable. That thing may never be big, but it is constantly being rediscovered and adopted in some gun or other. His rational that the .223 was higher velocity applies to the 22LR also. might as well say "why do we have dogs - my cat is better at catching mice than my dog is..."

[El Chivo]

he keeps mentioning that the guns chambered for certain cartridges aren't being made anymore. But he forgets that guns last for generations, they have owners and need to be fed. If you discontinue a gun you will still have a market for the ammo for quite some time.

[Hagler]

Gents,

Hacker invokes Colonel Cooper's name. Rick Hacker claims to be a friend of Chuck Connors. See here:

www.gunsandammomag.com/classics/homed_082906/

I recall that Hacker also has a "Rifleman's" rifle, that was one of Chuck's personal copies of the gun he used on the series.

Shawn

[O.S.O.K.]

He's a dork. I don't get or read G&A any more. I do get and read Handloader, Rifle and Successful Hunter - along with Shooting Times and my Rifleman and Hunter mags from my memberships.

Variety is the spice of life. Its just unAmerican to suggest doing away with the classic cartridges.

[Old Ironsights]

Market economics being what they are, I can sort of understand his point.

NIB ammunition from major Mfgs for small-batch markets only drives up the cost of mre "common" calibers.

IMO in almost every case he mentioned you get better performance from handloading anyway, and I'm guessing that 90+ % of those who have those calibers reload already and rarley buy NIB.

Frankly, again, from a purely economic standpoint, it would be far better for Rem/Win/ATK to drop those calibers and let them be carried by specialty loaders like Grizzly, or Buffalo Bore for those who don't reload.

[6pt-sika]

I seem to remmember reading an article this same guy wrote about the virtues of the 32 Special in the new Hornady rubber tipped stuff !

I suppose it all depends on what day it is and which side he cares to push that day

[John in MS]

"Rick Hacker claims to be a friend of Chuck Connors."


Big deal.

He's still a dork!

John

[Tumbleweeds]

Been hearing that line all my life. I'm only surprised he left out the 16 guage.

[6pt-sika]

Been hearing that line all my life. I'm only surprised he left out the 16 guage.

Now that you mention it !

He might have said the only thing keeping the 28 gauge afloat was registered skeet !

And the 10 gauge , I'm suprised he didn't bash that one as well !

I'm no longer a big shotgun person ! But I gotta say my two favourite shotgun gauges have been the 16 and 28 for a number of years !

[Bluehawk]

Interesting Rick Hacker has been the champion of the lever Action for 30 years I have old articles by him from various magazines over the years. for years he wrote how he had never taken a game animal with a scoped rifle. His articles on the BIG old lever guns back in the 80s were an inspirtation to me to start loading and using old time cartirdges
No doubt in my mind that it was supposed to be controversial and stir up reader ship . I started getting Guns& AMMO as a free perk from either Mid south shooters supply or one of them lately , I actualy looked at them for the first few months and then the drivel got so bad I just throw it away now when it comes in.
OH well Editors want the advertising and the sales are probalby declining

[45Jack]

The author states: " A .32 H&R Magnum will outperform the .32-20 WCF any day of the week..."

I don't buy that.
Jack

[victor]

My cars front tires have out-lived its usefulness.
A dried up pen has out-lived its usefulness.
A dead battery has out-lived its usefulness.

How can my rifle/cartridge that gives hours of fun at the range,go afield to bag game and stand ready for home duty be said to have out-lived its usefulness?

[Old Ironsights]

My cars front tires have out-lived its usefulness.
A dried up pen has out-lived its usefulness.
A dead battery has out-lived its usefulness.

How can my rifle/cartridge that gives hours of fun at the range,go afield to bag game and stand ready for home duty be said to have out-lived its usefulness?

I don't think they've outlived their usefulness... quite the contrary.

But I do think they have outlived the need for the Major Ammunition Manufacturers to continue to produce them... which, in Marketing/Gun Rag terms is "dead".

I can't expect ATK/Federal to make 9.3x72R ammunition just because I happen to have a 100 y/o rifle for it.

Reloading & Specialty Ammo shops are much better suited to the task.

[Rifleman336]

Just like the .327 Federal is like a .357 magnum but better. NOT! Like the .45 GAP ammo it's redundent. Like you can find out with the articals page one can see some of these "down and out" calibers, wouldn't be that way if their weren't for some technical/ human engineering issuse such as "magumized" .45 Long Colts rounds. If it wasn't for the fear of idiots putting such loads in Colt Peacemakers , one would be saying .44 magnum and .454 who???!!!

That and some rounds become victim of lack of development or the forgetting of old ways such as the .30-30. They used to make a furtakers round that can still take care of barn yard pests and take small game without distruction. Or how about Hornady taking the leverevoltion ammo further. Say they already make a "non standard" 160gr bulliet weight. I know,I know, that was the orignal weight, but it seems as though the market has settled on 125/130, 150, 170gr as standard wieghts. So why not do something differant like say a full bore 85gr leverevoltion bulliet with a thin jacket so it can be used as a varmiter/ defense round. And how about a 200/220 grainer for "extened range" load. That would be differant, but practical.

Just my .02 cents for what it worth.

Rifleman 336

[Hankster]

They have pages to fill each month. And really, how much NEW stuff is there in the gun world??? Making a 1911 shorter, a bolt gun in stainless...wow...... so they dream up these "fluff" stories to fill space. That, or go under! Too many magazines trying to survive with too little stuff to say!! Thats why you get these dumb "44 Mag vs. XXX " stories.... just fluff....no substance. More Substance can be found in places like this than those rags.....

[Bogie35]

Just another liberal disguised as a gun writer. He was probably planted there by Ted Kennedy.

bogie

[Hobie]

Mr. Hacker has an article in Guns and Ammo on the stands now titled something like "Cowboy Up" promoting the SAs, SxS and levergun as valid self-defense and hunting guns. Seems you guys have more to do with his editor than Mr. Hacker.

[dbateman]

wtf that dumb *** needs to go shoot something other than 330-ultratard mag

[txpete]

my 375 win is on life support guys .footlocker full of brass molds and gc's .
I have been telling people for years those bolt guns will never catch on
pete