Looking for Article re. .30-30 vs. Monster Brown Bear

[Cosmoline]

Someone here might be able to help me on this one. I remember reading an article, probably on-line, which included an account of a .30 WCF Winchester being used to drop a monster brown bear that had survived decades of pot shots with earlier weapons. This would have been in the 1890's or early 1900's. I thought it was an article on this site but I can't find it. I believe it took place in Canada.

Anyone remember this?

[Bullard4075]

I remember something about this. Google "Ol Groaner" or "Ol Growler" or something like that. I'll try to look it up tonite.

[KCSO]

Right bear wrong gun. The bear was Old Mose and was shot in Colorado after years of depradations. The gun that finished him was a 30-40 Krag and it took six shots.

[Cosmoline]

That was a different one. The article was referencing the advent of "white powder" with the .30 WCF and Win 94. It's not the growler one and it's not the Old Ephriam one.

EDIT: Ah, here it is. "White powder" was the key word. It's one of Paco Kelly's articles:

He was huge...he terrorized the north west Idaho/Canada border country for twenty years. He was a cattle killer, as he grew older and slower he became a man killer...he ravaged and put fear into the hearts of those who lived in his roaming area for those two decades....he was shot over a dozen times with many of the heaviest black powder calibers of the times...but they never stopped him. Even to the point of charging several of the shooters and killing them....

Then in the fall of 1895 armed with a new high velocity rifle and caliber and lots of courage....a young 22 year old man that had grown up during this grizzly’s incredible reign of terror...hunted him down and killed him. John Horton out of Kalispel, hit him three times...twice at 75 yards to put him down, once in the head at point blank range, to make sure he stayed down. What was this fantastic new cartridge and rifle. A Winchester model 94 in 30-30...with 160 grain bullets at approx 1960 fps. And this is not an unusual story...a number of nasty bears that seemed impervious to black powder rounds met their match with the new ‘white powder’ rounds of the turn of the 19th/20th century.

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/3030again.htm

[buckeyeshooter]

not what you were looking for but in the Book "Last of the Brown Bear Men", the story of Pinnell and Talifson. There is a chapter where one of the guides takes an 11 foot Browine with his 30-30 94 winchester. He later gets a winchester 70 in 375 H+H by the way.

[O.S.O.K.]

Yep, the 30-40 and 30-30 rounds were the big medicine of their day. I can't help but think it may have had somenthing to do with the lack of a huge cloud of smoke obscuring followup shots....

I'd rather have a 45-70 with 405 grain bullets at 1350 fps muzzle velocity any day over a 30-30 for grizzly.

[Cosmoline]

I just find it fascinating how our views of firearms change over the decades. In 1900 they would have thought you foolish for using an "old fashioned" .45-70 against a brown bear instead of the newest white powder marvel. Of course they hadn't discovered what happens when you load a .45-70 with the new powder.

The thing that got me thinking about this was a friend who used one of my old WIn 94's to shoot a brown bear last month. It was a gut shot that stopped the charge but left him wounded. A neighbor killed him. On the one hand it did stop the charge, on the other it didn't kill him. But then again what would kill a large boar if you're shooting its gut from the hip? And what rifle is portable enough you can take it to the outhouse with you?

[BigSky56]

Jack Turner from BC, Canada shot the #2 grizzly in 1965 at 5 to 10' with a 30 WCF was walking down a trail got crossways with him, heard that 2 years ago he was mauled by 2 or 3 grizzlies outside his cabin in BC still alive. I also know of a ole boy up here in Montana that killed a grizzly with a 25/35 have seen a photo of the skull with the hole in it. Those 94's can get the job done. danny

[TomD]

Love the 30/30. Actually up here we get the odd 94 in 303, and that babby has dumped a lot of elephant, though I am not sure whether the loads are the same for the Lee Enfield and the 94.

While the grizzly was walking perpendicular with a pal in open ground, not clossing, Art Young's grizzly with a longbow shows that a hole in the right place, you can measure for a rug.

[dbateman]

yeah we see some old 94 in 303 from ww11 when thats all you could get??

[Mich Hunter]

It's all about shot placement If a long bow can do it, a 30-30 can do it also

[J Miller]

Love the 30/30. Actually up here we get the odd 94 in 303, and that babby has dumped a lot of elephant, though I am not sure whether the loads are the same for the Lee Enfield and the 94.

While the grizzly was walking perpendicular with a pal in open ground, not clossing, Art Young's grizzly with a longbow shows that a hole in the right place, you can measure for a rug.

The Mdl 1894 / 94 Winchester was never made in the 303 British, the action is too small for the cartridge. You might be thinking of the 1895 Winchester.
If so then the same loads work for each.

Joe

[66GTO]

Actually up here we get the odd 94 in 303,

Tom,

Where is "up here"? I don't see a location in your signature.

[kaschi]

Maybe they were thinking 303 Savage in the Winchester 94. I know it was never chambered for the Savage round, but there was an American Rifleman article back in the 80's that discussed a trapper out in Washington State or Oregon who had a 94 converted to 303 Savage for whatever reason. If I can locate that article, I'll let you know the month and year.

[Poohgyrr]

And what rifle is portable enough you can take it to the outhouse with you?

And folks sometimes think it's silly to have a bathroom gun......

[20cows]

And folks sometimes think it's silly to have a bathroom gun......

Sometimes it's good to just sit and "shoot the ..."

[KCSO]

You will also note that Olive Fredrichsen thought the 30-30 was not perfect for big bears but adaquate.

[AJMD429]

And what rifle is portable enough you can take it to the outhouse with you?

If I lived in BEAR country, my portable outhouse 'rifle' would be a .454 Casull 6" barreled revolver; of course the poor folks who lived in real bear country a century ago had no such option.

[Cosmoline]

If I lived in BEAR country, my portable outhouse 'rifle' would be a .454 Casull 6" barreled revolver; of course the poor folks who lived in real bear country a century ago had no such option.

I lived on the lot where this bear was shot for several years before returning to indoor plumbing. I had a Casull when I went out there, but didn't keep it long. It's more practical to have a packable rifle. In the outhouse, for example, what are you going to do? Let it hit the ground with your belt? It's a lot easier to have a levergun leaning against the wall.

Besides which, how much additional power does a .454 give you over a .30-30?