Heavy bullets in .38 Spl

[azmark]

I was just reading on another forum about loading heavy hard cast bullets in a .38 case. I don't mean really heavy loads, but rather standard pressure or a little higher, pushing 850 fps or less. Would these be useful loads on medium size game or predators? I just wanted opinions from you guys here.

[JerryB]

Wasn't the old British load a .38/200? That is a heavy bullet.

[Hobie]

I don't believe you have to work too hard to push 200-205 to 850 fps from a 5-6" barrel.

[azmark]

Would that slug carry enough momentum to cause significant damage even though it's travelling relatively slowly?

I assume it would be safe to shoot a load like that in any .38 in good condition.

[Rusty]

Years ago a 200 grain at 850 was the standard used by a lot of police agencies especially in snub noses.

[86er]

I have but one factual set of examples for you. My son was trying to get his first deer and he was using a 20" rifle with 180gr FNGC bullets. They came out of the rifle around 1000 fps. We kept the range to 50 yards or less but the first opportunities came right at 50 yards. The first deer was hit broadside through the lungs and it ran. There was no blood and it got dark. I found it in the morning about 250 yards away in a creek. Coyotes had started on it and my son was in school so he did not get to experience the recovery. The second time was a similar circumstance. The deer was hit well and scooted off with a broken front leg swinging. Again, not one drop of blood and it got dark. Once again I found it in the morning, somewhere between 200 and 300 yards away as it was not in a straight line at all. The bullet broke the front shoulder and cut into one lung. It was rounded on the front and weighed 137.6 grs. Well, that was it for me. I told my son "either you shoot 357 Mag and do it accurately or wait until next year when you can". Meanwhile, my friend Jaz was convinced the 38 Spl should work and on a bet, he used it at his deer culling job. He shot one at 40 yds and hit it again at 60 yards as it walked off. This was early morning so he had time to look. It took him 3.5 hours to find the deer as it didnt leave a blood trail. He thought it had just died. He ended up searching on an ATV and just happend to come upon it. One bullet was in the chest but missed the heart and the other was in one lung. So could you kill a deer sized animal (TX deer are 100 pounds or so)? Yes. Will the 38 Spl-Heavy load be reliable, efficient and humane? Not in my experience. I discourage it.

[horsesoldier03]

I agree with 86er. The .38 while a great cartridge is still poor compared to the .357 when hunting deer. IMO, I think the 180 grain is a bit heavy for caliber to be shooting deer. Mass is good, but it cuts into the velocity side of the house too much.

Using a ballistic calculator, an 1894 Marlin .357 will push a 158 grn JSP at approx. 1957 fps. This yields 1343 ft lbs of energy and has a Taylor KO value of 15.

for comparison,

Joe's 180 grain load pushes 1000 fps. On the same calculator, a 180 grain load moving at 1100 fps yields 483 ft lbs and has a Taylor KO value of 10.

IMO, the heavy 180 grn bullets steal too much velocity from the round. I think you would be better off to stick with the 158 grains, even the 30-30 only uses a 150 grn bullet, of course it is moving a a much faster rate.

[azmark]

Don't worry, I'm not going to run out and start shooting deer with a .38. The question came from a conversation about shooting trapped hogs. It made me think about velocity vs. mass and the factory heavy cast loads for deer hunting in .357 because their velocity is relatively slow. I think it's an interesting subject to say the least.

[Ji in Hawaii]

Point blank into a stationary hogs skull should work fine at least as good as a .22LR which has worked fine for me on hogs.
Wouldn't use it for much more than that.

[O.S.O.K.]

My question is why? Unless that's all that you have... and then, a brain shot would be called for.

The .357 Mag is a whole nuther story, though, I would limit the distance with a hangun - levergun with a good bullet that will hold together is a good round for deer.

[FWiedner]

Point blank into a stationary hogs skull should work fine at least as good as a .22LR which has worked fine for me on hogs.
Wouldn't use it for much more than that.

Not necessarily disagreeing with you, Ji. Just adding a caution.

Shooting a trapped hog in the head works but as with every other application, where you put the bullet is important.

I've shot hogs point blank in a trap with a 9mm and managed to turn the thing into a bloody mess because I planted it somewhere in the snout rather than directly into the brain-pan.

Lesson learned. Hogs don't like being in traps and tend to get 'animated' when humans approach. Still, you've got to be careful where you place your shots, unless you enjoy watching the critters suffer.

[Ji in Hawaii]

Point blank into a stationary hogs skull should work fine at least as good as a .22LR which has worked fine for me on hogs.
Wouldn't use it for much more than that.

Not necessarily disagreeing with you, Ji. Just adding a caution.

Shooting a trapped hog in the head works but as with every other application, where you put the bullet is important.

Amen!