modern ammo in an 1892 Winchester

[shiloh505]

Gentleman,
I have a model 1873 manufactured in 1892. It is .32-20 and I've acquired two different types of ammo for it. HSM 115 grain that is marked COWBOY ACTION LEAD, not load, lead. I also have some Remington Express Rifle .32-20 110 grain lead bullet. Are either or both safe to shoot in this rifle. The rifle has no issues. It functions well and is in good condition. I'm worried about pressures. I've checked the internet and as usual I find a multitude of opinions on modern day ammo in these guns. Some say the current ammo is loaded to lower pressures than late 1800's early 1900's loads. Others say no way. I called Remington and the tech I spoke to said he was unsure but wouldn't recommend it because SAMMI didn't exist at the time the rifle was made and it was made for black powder rounds. So I'm bringing my question to the most knowledgeable lever people I know.
Thank you for your assistance.

[Pete44ru]

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In a word, no - modern ammo is unsuitable in your 1892-era Model 1873.

Winchester had a problem making nickel steel barrels, so it was not until 1895 that all guns were considered suitable for smokeless powder.

I would recommend black powder loads only, as those early steels were much softer than later steel used in smokeless powder guns.



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[Griff]

.
In a word, no - modern ammo is unsuitable in your 1892-era Model 1873.
Winchester had a problem making nickel steel barrels, so it was not until 1895 that all guns were considered suitable for smokeless powder.
I would recommend black powder loads only, as those early steels were much softer than later steel used in smokeless powder guns.
.

+1. Use BP loads. 'Sides, that was all that rifle grew up on....

[ollogger]

I shot around 2 thousand rounds out of my 32-20 that was made in 1886
I used RL7 or 4198 & cast bullets & had no problems ever, I had some old Remington
factory ammo I also shot up in the gun & they were lead bullets also with no problems
years ago 2 old guys I knew hunted with factory ammo with 73s in 38-40 & 44-40 they used
them guns for years & had a lot of faith in them


ollogger

[AJMD429]

Personally, I don't "know anything", but it doesn't stop me from having an opinion.

I'd either 'stick with BP loads' which would be hard to overdose on, pressure-wise, or. . . .

I'd use my own (or a trusted source of) reloads, with a suitable, similar-pressure-curve, low-pressure reloads, say with SR 4759 or some similar powder. The reason for that, vs. BP, is that those powders are ever-so-much easier (for me, at least) to keep from causing corrosion in my guns. Evidently for my great grandfather as well, as my 1889 Marlin has a very pitted bore.

Modern Smokeless Powders are NOT always 'hotter' or 'more pressure' than black powder; it depends on the specific powder and loading as to the pressure-curve. Of course for various reasons you can WAY over-charge with the modern powders and ruin a gun (or your face), so you have to use only the appropriate loads. Sticking with BP is easier in that area, but for me, it seems that no matter how thoroughly I soak and scrub my BP firearms after each use, there tends to creep in some corrosion.

But like I said, I don't know anything, or at least not much, about black powder.

Regardless, stick with 'low power' loads.

[w30wcf]

Yes, modern Cowboy type loads are safe in your original '73 since pressures do not exceed b.p. pressures. I have a '73 .44-40 made in 1883 and to date it has digested about 3,000 reloads, 2000 smokeless and about 1000 b.p.

Also consider the fact that starting in the mid 1890's the factories offered smokeless cartridges with "1873" specifically mentioned on the box.

w30wcf

[M. M. Wright]

I have a Winchester model 92 that was manufactured in 1892 in 32-20. The barrel was relined about 5 or 6 years ago and I shoot smokeless in it almost exclusively. Some think the 73 is not as strong but I bet they are both made from the same steel.
I would use the cowboy loads in your 73 without a bit of trepidation. The express loads should be reserved for model '92s.
Just my opinion.

[Centennial]

I have several 19th century Winchester '73's and other makes. They never see black powder. Use cast bullets and the smokeless loads that are in some manuals listed for the old guns and you will get accuracy that cannot be found from factory ammo. Of course you should strip down and inspect the the rifles parts, or have someone do it while you watch so you'll know how it works and that everything is in good order. While it's apart clean and wipe everything all down with good oil, and grease as needed.

[Sixgun]

I have several 19th century Winchester '73's and other makes. They never see black powder. Use cast bullets and the smokeless loads that are in some manuals listed for the old guns and you will get accuracy that cannot be found from factory ammo. Of course you should strip down and inspect the the rifles parts, or have someone do it while you watch so you'll know how it works and that everything is in good order. While it's apart clean and wipe everything all down with good oil, and grease as needed.

Centennial could not have said it better. You saved me lots of typing. But........I always got to get my two cents in........

I have wondered in amazement how I hear constantly that you should never....never shoot smokeless in an old BP gun. About 35 years or more ago, I happened on to a Smith New Model 3 in 44 Russian, an early one that was about worn out........and I wanted to shoot it. I heard about the warnings but common sense told me if you keep the pressure down....it's good to go......so about 3 grains of Unique got shoved in a case with a Lyman 44 caliber of some sort and I went to town.

Over the years I have owned and still own dozens of guns that were made during the black powder era and with the exception of a few near mint specimens, they get shot. A first year production 1881 Marlin, Colt Lightnings, 1873 Winchesters, along with a Remington Keene get shot regularly, each
digesting several thousand rounds of smokeless in competition and play.

Go ahead and enjoy your 32-20 and the factory ammo.------6

[shiloh505]

Thanks to all of you for your responses.

[Mike Armstrong]

Your lead bullet Remington ammo is probably OK in a '73. If it had jacketed bullets, I wouldn't use it because some of the jacketed stuff is equivalent to the Winchester HV ammo that has warnings not to use it in '73s and revolvers.

The Cowboy stuff, as mentioned is fine in a '73 in good condition.