How do You Guys do it?

[tcomer]

I finally dragged my wife out of the house to see where I was hitting. I was shooting over the bottles most of the time. Once I figured out where I was hitting, I became more consistent at hitting the bottles. Not great mind you, but better at it. I only used the 44 yesterday. The gun is not as accurate as my 357 with my hand loads. In fact, they are pretty mild loads. About midway between 44 Special and 44 mag loads with a 200gr bullet. Next time out, I'll try the 357. Trigger on it is a little better. Jerking the trigger is starting to tick me off. Not something I normally do. Been awhile since I shot open sights and offhand. The best thing for me to do is go back to big targets and see exactly what I'm doing. And practice more. A lot more.

[Old Ironsights]

1886TD, 50yds, offhand, Factory Buckhorns. Never shot the gun before.



I expect it will get better.

[Steve Collins]

The trigger can make or break you, brother. My 1942 model 94 30-30 breaks clean every single time, with no creep or take up. I know what it'll do, if I do everything right!

My 2005 model 94 Wrangler .44 magnum has what has to be one of the crappiest triggers in existence, but will still put it's rounds where they need to go. I just have to work a lot harder to get them there.

Just keep at it; don't get discouraged! The satisfaction at the end will be worth al the effort!

[Grizz]

Old Ironsights,

1886TD, 50yds, offhand, Factory Buckhorns. Never shot the gun before.

Looks like you're about 8" high, you might need a taller front sight to get to the X...

..., Grizz

[shooter]

I'm not the best or most experienced shooter on here, but I do pretty good with a rifle most of the time. It's like a lot of other people said on here, it just takes practice. Growing up I lived in a very populated city, and didn't have access to a gun range very much of the time. I used a 4x8 piece of plywood for a backstop and shot my pellet gun in my back yard. I shot almost every day. Thousands of rounds. I was only shooting at 15 to 20 yards, but it was getting the basics down that helped my shooting tremendously. Just make sure you find what is a proper, comfortable hold, and hold your gun the same every time. Get the same sight picture every time. Squeeze the trigger the same every time. I got to where I could shoot asprins off hand at 20 yards pretty consistently. Those techniques will carry over to firearms. 22's are good, cheap practice also. About half the time I go to the range I shoot 22's almost exclusively. The main thing is practice. Now I can hit most of what I want to off hand at out to 100 yds. with open sights, or apertures. I'm getting to where I like apertures more and more these days. They just seem more natural.

[Jarhead]

I am going to start from the ground up you cant build a house from the roof down so her goes.

This is how I teach Marines to shoot offhand and its what works for me.
Start with your feet a comfortable shoulders distance apart standing at an angle to the target not quite 90 degrees. Dont lean in any one direction but stand up straight with your weight planted on your feet.

Bring the rifle to your shoulder and allow the forward hand to act as a table ( dont choke the fore end your hand is there only as a rest to take the weight of the gun and your fingers should be relaxed) Allow your forward elbow to point naturaly down to your forward foot.

With your fireing hand grasp the stock firmly but dont choke it. Your fireing elbow may point out to the side or hang down naturaly this is shooters preference. Get good cheek weld.

After you have set your body up for the shot raise the muzzel slightly above the target and line up your sights. Once you have sight alignment lower the sights on to the target and verify that your looking at the target.
Take a breath and exhale when you see the front sight cross the target as the barrel drops back down squeez the trigger.

It is Important to know that the longer you hold your breath the more unsteady you become also your eye sight starts to degrade after 2-3 seconds of not breathing. Also your fine muscles start to tremor after a few seconds of not breathing. If you find that after 2-3 seconds you have not fired the shot drop the rifle from your shoulder relaxe your body and breath after a few moments restart the above process.

These are the things I preach when shooting offhand slow fire at the 200 yard line for our rifle qualification. I will be on the range coaching this week and will take some pics tomorrow to demonstrate.

Sounds very familiar Brother....some things never change...looking forward to seeing the PICs

[Old Ironsights]

Old Ironsights,

1886TD, 50yds, offhand, Factory Buckhorns. Never shot the gun before.

Looks like you're about 8" high, you might need a taller front sight to get to the X...

..., Grizz

Actually, it's about 3" high and 1" right on that target. I need to see where it hits at 100. I thought that being a little high at 50 is probably not a bad thing.

[Grizz]

Old Ironsights,

1886TD, 50yds, offhand, Factory Buckhorns. Never shot the gun before.

Looks like you're about 8" high, you might need a taller front sight to get to the X...

..., Grizz

Actually, it's about 3" high and 1" right on that target. I need to see where it hits at 100. I thought that being a little high at 50 is probably not a bad thing.

I was pulling your leg. Target looks great. I was referring to the X on the Winchester box. My sad misplaced inappropriate unsuccessful attempt at levity if not humor. my bad...

Grizz

[WCF3030]

Shoot these groups with the XS sights that by some are not considered for fine groups.
Offhand and bench with a 17 5/8 in barreled Marlin 336 shooting cast from a micro-grooved barrel of all things.
The nerve!!
The bottom pic has 5 rds through it.
Almost forgot..."How do you guys do it?"
Lots and lots of practice. Slow deliberate fire using the instruction my father (Yes Jreed a Marine) gave me years ago.
90% of my shooting for the last 3 years has been with the same rifle and load.

[AmBraCol]

I was pulling your leg. Target looks great. I was referring to the X on the Winchester box. My sad misplaced inappropriate unsuccessful attempt at levity if not humor. my bad...

Now THAT'S FUNNY! I'd not caught the "X" on the ammo box so was only mildly amused before...

[Grizz]

Thanks Paul,

I hope OI isn't miffed at me thinking I was criticizing his shooting!

I think only my brother would have caught that one, we go round and round that way, but we often have to explain 'em to anyone but ourselves.

After all the torqued sphincters I thought I'd try to crack someone up.

Grizz

[Old Ironsights]

No worries. No offense taken.

[Old Savage]

Airgun is a great way to go to practice the basics very inexpensively. I shot these among about 5000 shots this way in the garage as stated in the other post about using a 20 ft. garage range. Use small targets. You get immediate feedback and there is nothing to distract from concentration on the all important basics. Those habits will ingrain for the bigger stuff.

[Grizz]

What airgun do you use/recommend?

[ScottT]

Airguns can be very good tools, but you have to get out in the weather and changing light conditions too.

[JReed]

Here are my before promised pics.
These are all at the 200 yards slow fire segment of the range the only position not shown is the prone.

Sitting notice good bone suport and solid check weld.



Kneeling from both a right handed shooter and a lefty.



Here is the off hand Both of these shooters scored expert today shooting the way I described before. Notice how they stand naturaly on their feet their forward hands are relaxed and the have good stock weld and eye relief.



I hope this helps.

[Old Savage]

The point of the airgun is to learn to concentrate. I used the Beeman R7 and sent it back a couple of times for a new spring. As to the weather - of course but the basics first. I bet very few of the good groups you see here have been shot in a rain storm. Some can concentrate in distraction but I see very little except fine weather when people are shooting here.

[Old Savage]

Lighting conditons - now there is a variable you just need experience to deal with and they will always be there.

[Old Ironsights]

That poor lefty needs Stag Arms gun...

[WCF3030]

JReed nice pics at the range!!

[Noah Zark]

JReed:

That at Pendleton?

Noah

[Hobie]

Jeremy,

The Corps is so smart in not requiring helmets on all ranges...

[JReed]

Noah yes Wilcox range 103 by the air station.

Hobie we dont require helmets for the known distance course but for the combat field fire they have to wear flacks and kevlar (helmet) along with all the mag pouches. They shot 120 rounds each today for the combat field fire. Thats a whole lot of getting in and out of the kneeling wearing all the extra weight.

[JReed]

That poor lefty needs Stag Arms gun...

He did alright with the colt. The hard part is me as a righty coaching a lefty. Couldnt have done to bad he went from being a 2 time marksman to getting his first expert qual.

[AJMD429]

[quote="JReed"]Here are my before promised pics.
Kneeling from both a right handed shooter and a lefty.

Notice how they stand naturaly on their feet their forward hands are relaxed and the have good stock weld and eye relief.

Two comments:

1. I'm sure GLAD I'm not a left handed AR-15 or M-16 shooter (or any semiauto for that matter) That hot brass searing my right eyebrow on its way by my face might be distracting!

2. The 'cheek weld' seems to be possible with the AR/M16 and it's unusually high sight axis, so I think folks who fear 'see through rings' may want to try them before they assume the height would be too much for good 'cheek weld' - I know the stock shape and comb height make a difference as well, but it is interesting how the body can adapt to rather different shaped firearms. I'll bet some of these shooters could do just as well with a vintage 'Kentucky rifle' with it's exaggerated drop at the comb; they'd just re-position their stance and so on. It is all about adapting.

[Charles]

Rifle shooting is all about basics.

1) How you hold the rifle. The old Military off hand stance is still the best. Pull the rifle tight into your shoulder with your strong hand. Place the elbow of your off hand under the rifle to form a 90 degree angle. Extend the elbow of your strong side up at 90 degrees from your body to lock the rifle butt into the shoulder.

2) Breath control. Take a breath, let it out, take another and hold it

3) Sight picture. Sight your rifle so the target is on top of the front sight. Make certain the amount of light around the side of the front sight in the rear sight notch is equal on both sides and consistant from shot to shot.

4) Trigger squeeze. Never jerk or pull the trigger, but apply slow pressure until it breaks. In off hand shooting you let the front sight drift from left or right, or right to left. You begin the squeeze as the sights drifts toward the target and time the last oz of pressure to break as the sights and target are in perfect alignment. It is similiar to using a shotgun where you start the swing behind the target and squeeze the trigger at the right part of the sight movement.

The trigger squeeze is the hardest part to master in off hand shooting.

Buy yourself a book on basis rifle shooting which will have pics of the above. Get a good 22 rimfire rifle with good sights and a clean trigger pull and practice, practice, practice. It would also help to have someone to watch and coach you for a couple of sessions. Don't try to learn the fine points of rifle craft with a centerfire rifle..to much recoil and too much cost to do the amount of shooting you need.

Rifles shooting is no more difficult than riding a bicycle or useing a typewriter. Anybody with decent eyesight and no major physical disabilities can master it. All it takes is the basics and practice.

Don't let these boys spoof you. Hitting a pop can ten out of ten times off hand at 100 yards requires a high degree of skill. A degree not possed by most of the poster. Note I said 10 out of 10... 7 out of 10 is still pretty good, but 5 out of 10 won't win bring home any trophies.

Hiting a pop can 10 out of 10 times at 50 yards with a rifle should be duck soup, much less a 2 liter bottle. Hitting a pop can 10 out of 10 times is good pistol shooting, but still not all that hard for a man on top of his game.

An occasional hit or lucky shot doesn't count for squat. All that matters is what you can do every time you squeeze the trigger.

P.S. I just checked the rest of the thread, and the Jarhead in the pic is using the off hand stance I discribed above. Notice the positiion of the arms and elbows.

[Mojo]

You really have to work at not anticipating the shot. The next time you are at the range have somebody else load your rifle using a few empty cartridges mixed in with the live rounds while your back is turned and you might be surprised at how much you are flinching. There seems to be an overall tendency to try and help the bullet down the barrel which must be overcome.

I've found that the longer I try to hold a bead on a target the worse my accuracy becomes. It takes a lot of practice and you have to really know your firearm but before long it will become almost second nature. Previous posters are correct, using an air gun or even a .22 is excellent practice. Having a good, solid cheek weld is probably one of the more underrated attributes of a good stance.

[horsesoldier03]

Here are my before promised pics.
These are all at the 200 yards slow fire segment of the range the only position not shown is the prone.

Sitting notice good bone suport and solid check weld.

[

Never thought I would say this, but dang if that aint one cute MARINE!

[JReed]

Here are my before promised pics.
These are all at the 200 yards slow fire segment of the range the only position not shown is the prone.

Sitting notice good bone suport and solid check weld.

[

Never thought I would say this, but dang if that aint one cute MARINE!

She is married. She is a darn good shot to boot.

[meanc]

Never thought I would say this, but dang if that aint one cute MARINE!

Horsesoldier,

I can tell you now, the Marine Corps has a whole slew of good lookin' women Marines. Just seems they're all stationed in Quantico.


JR, is that Pendleton's range? I haven't seen that view in almost 20 years.

[JReed]

Never thought I would say this, but dang if that aint one cute MARINE!

Horsesoldier,

I can tell you now, the Marine Corps has a whole slew of good lookin' women Marines. Just seems they're all stationed in Quantico.


JR, is that Pendleton's range? I haven't seen that view in almost 20 years.

Yep Wilcox range 103 by the flight line.

[AJMD429]

I haven't read every post but I'm wondering how much load developement you have done with this gun. Before you can learn to do your part the gun and ammo has to be up to the task. you will never be able to consistantly hit a 3" can @ 100 yds if your ammo and gun combo is only capable of 6" groups @ 100 yds.

One thing I have found useful is to scope the gun, even if I won't leave a scope on it for 'use' and shoot off the bench to get a feel for what LOAD works best, and the overall potential of the GUN. Then, once I get those established, I'll switch back to whatever sight (or scope) I actually want to use, and practice. Then practice more. I'm not a great shot, but I like to be able to offhand the 8" gong at 100 yards with anything I'd ever hunt with. Someday I'd like to have a 300 yard range and try to get a few of my guns to help me smack the same gong that far away; now THAT would be one heck of a challenge (I'd probably have to resort to a scope to even see it)!

[Bramble]

Marlin 1894 CS Williams apature factory bead. Offhand

Compitition string 30 rounds 10, 25, 50 mts. 2'sec exposures 3 sec away time.