OT: Italian Guns to be Manufactured with RFID Technology
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- J Miller
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OT: Italian Guns to be Manufactured with RFID Technology
http://www.securitymanagement.com/news/ ... ogy-008865
Well, they say it's for inventory control. BS knee deep I call it. But this marks the end of any new Italian guns for me. Won't be a part of this at all.
I suppose you can remove them but just how long till US companies follow suite and the Feds make it illegal to remove the chips?
Nope, the end is near.
Joe
Well, they say it's for inventory control. BS knee deep I call it. But this marks the end of any new Italian guns for me. Won't be a part of this at all.
I suppose you can remove them but just how long till US companies follow suite and the Feds make it illegal to remove the chips?
Nope, the end is near.
Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts .***
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Re: OT: Italian Guns to be Manufactured with RFID Technology
Good to know, Thanks, Joe.
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Re: OT: Italian Guns to be Manufactured with RFID Technology
I think I'm goin' to put another layer of foil in my ball cap...
Come on Joe, don't have a heart attack!
Is this something new? No. Is it relatively new as applied to firearms? Yes. Can it be used to track the guns now? No. Might miniaturization allow that in the future? Yes. Can you still remove them? Yes. Are this things as aesthetically displeasing as locks and lawyer switches? Yes. Will I buy such? No.
Come on Joe, don't have a heart attack!
Is this something new? No. Is it relatively new as applied to firearms? Yes. Can it be used to track the guns now? No. Might miniaturization allow that in the future? Yes. Can you still remove them? Yes. Are this things as aesthetically displeasing as locks and lawyer switches? Yes. Will I buy such? No.
Sincerely,
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
Re: OT: Italian Guns to be Manufactured with RFID Technology
There was some comment on the net about this. The RFID is used to track the gun for inventory purposes and can be scanned in the plant in the warehouses without opening the packages they are in. They have been doing it for several years. The tracking device used to read the chip must be just a few inches away to work. The chip provides no power or signal and at this time cannot be tracked from space. They claim if you don't want the chip(s) just remove it as they are usually hot glued under the grip and come off fairly easily. It was claimed this technology is being used in a lot of different industries for inventory control and tracking on all sorts of things. I am sure it can change down the road. Chiappi uses them on their HI Points and other guns in Italy. Maybe this explains the bar codes on my back. Good Luck. ATB.
- Old Ironsights
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Re: OT: Italian Guns to be Manufactured with RFID Technology
RFID is really easy to defeat. Info on creating a localized EMP device that will kill an RFID within a couple hundred feet is readily available.
I'm not going to sweat it.
My Cat(s) have operable RFIDs, but nothing else will...
I'm not going to sweat it.
My Cat(s) have operable RFIDs, but nothing else will...
C2N14... because life is not energetic enough.
מנא, מנא, תקל, ופרסין Daniel 5:25-28... Got 7.62?
Not Depressed enough yet? Go read National Geographic, July 1976
Gott und Gewehr mit uns!
מנא, מנא, תקל, ופרסין Daniel 5:25-28... Got 7.62?
Not Depressed enough yet? Go read National Geographic, July 1976
Gott und Gewehr mit uns!
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Re: OT: Italian Guns to be Manufactured with RFID Technology
Was told by my Gun Dealer buddy starting probably by next year(all NEW MFG Handguns as of 2012 sold in US will have them)(micro printed?)
Also said with much other red tape new cost to being passed on to the customers that handguns will become so expensive most wont by them.???? Value of used ones will go up and up?
Anyone else hearing this?
Also said with much other red tape new cost to being passed on to the customers that handguns will become so expensive most wont by them.???? Value of used ones will go up and up?
Anyone else hearing this?
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Re: OT: Italian Guns to be Manufactured with RFID Technology
J Miller wrote:http://www.securitymanagement.com/news/ ... ogy-008865
Well, they say it's for inventory control. BS knee deep I call it. But this marks the end of any new Italian guns for me. Won't be a part of this at all.
I suppose you can remove them but just how long till US companies follow suite and the Feds make it illegal to remove the chips?
Nope, the end is near.
Joe
Better double up on the tinfoil, Joe.
- AJMD429
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Re: OT: Italian Guns to be Manufactured with RFID Technology
+1, +1, +1, +0Old Ironsights wrote:RFID is really easy to defeat. Info on creating a localized EMP device that will kill an RFID within a couple hundred feet is readily available.
I'm not going to sweat it.
My Cat(s) have operable RFIDs, but nothing else will...
Our cats are 'barn' cats and are pretty much on their own other than each year they get to choose between two types of shots to prevent them from getting rabies.*
* (if they get too-wild-to-catch, they get the 'lifetime' version ).
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.
Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.
Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
Re: OT: Italian Guns to be Manufactured with RFID Technology
As long as we know where they are and how to remove them (and as long as they're internal and not an eyesore) I don't care. What worries me more is that these things will slip into our new guns covertly. Or even worse, be required to be installed if you send a gun for service.
There's no end to what the gun haters will foist upon us if we let them.
Oly
There's no end to what the gun haters will foist upon us if we let them.
Oly
Cheers,
Oly
I hope and pray someday the world will learn
That fires we don't put out will bigger burn
Johnny Wright
Oly
I hope and pray someday the world will learn
That fires we don't put out will bigger burn
Johnny Wright
Re: OT: Italian Guns to be Manufactured with RFID Technology
So what are we saying? That now I'll have to disassemble every new gun I buy and inspect them to see if all the parts are there or if anything is strange or doesn't quite belong?
Oh, wait...
I already do that.
Oh, wait...
I already do that.
Government office attracts the power-mad, yet it's people who just want to be left alone to live life on their own terms who are considered dangerous.
History teaches that it's a small window in which people can fight back before it is too dangerous to fight back.
History teaches that it's a small window in which people can fight back before it is too dangerous to fight back.
- O.S.O.K.
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Re: OT: Italian Guns to be Manufactured with RFID Technology
I've got plenty of old guns.... don't need to worry about any tracking chips.
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Re: OT: Italian Guns to be Manufactured with RFID Technology
a good strong magnet should screw them up!
LETS GO SHOOT'N BOYS
- Old Savage
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Re: OT: Italian Guns to be Manufactured with RFID Technology
My daughter brought her GPS up here so I now know my exact location as I am typing this - well a foot to my right - and I keep it listed there - well a foot south of that so I now know right where I am. But it is early and I haven't had my coffee yet but I will be somewhere else later. If I find any chips I will put them in an old Cutty Sark bottle and float them down the aqueduct. Pretty sure that would be some code violation though. Come to think of it I have never had Cutty Sark. Thanks Joe. I am going to put that on my list.
Re: OT: Italian Guns to be Manufactured with RFID Technology
And many have said in the past Ubertis and Chiappas weren't good investments Always a nice gun anyway, my Cimarron Model P is looking particularly good right now!
- J Miller
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Re: OT: Italian Guns to be Manufactured with RFID Technology
My concerns are not because of the inventory reasons or that the chips are just glued on. Or that they can be removed.
But just like seat belts; back in the mid 1950s cars did not come with them. Then in the late 50s they became optional, then in the early 60s standard equipment. Then the govt got involved and use of these items is mandatory.
The chips will become mandatory as well once all the gun makers start using them. The fears of technology being used to watch and track owners of such equipped guns is valid in my opinion.
That's all I'm saying. Currently the chips are removable and if I found one in a gun I bought it would be removed immediately.
Joe
But just like seat belts; back in the mid 1950s cars did not come with them. Then in the late 50s they became optional, then in the early 60s standard equipment. Then the govt got involved and use of these items is mandatory.
The chips will become mandatory as well once all the gun makers start using them. The fears of technology being used to watch and track owners of such equipped guns is valid in my opinion.
That's all I'm saying. Currently the chips are removable and if I found one in a gun I bought it would be removed immediately.
Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts .***
Re: OT: Italian Guns to be Manufactured with RFID Technology
Before everyone gets their panties in a twist, one must understand the technology. Current 'long range' RFID tags can be read in free space up to about 60 feet, 40 feet is the average. Tags on metal objects, depending upon exact location vs the transmitter can be from 25 feet to only a few inches. Big brother won't be able to track your RFID tag on a firearm unless he's standing right next to you (and then he already knows you're there).
Steve
Retired and Living the Good Life
No Matter Where You Go, There You Are
Retired and Living the Good Life
No Matter Where You Go, There You Are
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Re: OT: Italian Guns to be Manufactured with RFID Technology
You havent missed a thing. I keep a bottle under the sink at all times in case the drain gets plugged up.Old Savage wrote: Come to think of it I have never had Cutty Sark. .
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Re: OT: Italian Guns to be Manufactured with RFID Technology
Your prognostications on the internet are a hell of a lot easier for the gooberment to track than any chip they might put in a gun. And, I'm sure you are already aware, they are doing that tracking right now, no need to wait for advances in chip technology.
- J Miller
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Re: OT: Italian Guns to be Manufactured with RFID Technology
Aw well, I should know better than to post things "I" find interesting and worrisome. Seems you all know better and what I've watched happen since 1963 is just a figment of my imagination.
Someday I'll learn.
Joe
Someday I'll learn.
Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts .***
Re: OT: Italian Guns to be Manufactured with RFID Technology
Well that's a good point but the "slippery slope" argument is well tested and proven also. Let's face it, the Western world is run by "progressives" and most of us here are regressives. It sucks, and no Joe, it's not a pigment of yer machinations.jnyork wrote:Your prognostications on the internet are a hell of a lot easier for the gooberment to track than any chip they might put in a gun. And, I'm sure you are already aware, they are doing that tracking right now, no need to wait for advances in chip technology.
I wont stop buying Eyetallian arms, but I'll look for those daggum chips and smash 'em.
Oly
Cheers,
Oly
I hope and pray someday the world will learn
That fires we don't put out will bigger burn
Johnny Wright
Oly
I hope and pray someday the world will learn
That fires we don't put out will bigger burn
Johnny Wright
- J Miller
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Re: OT: Italian Guns to be Manufactured with RFID Technology
Oly,olyinaz wrote:Well that's a good point but the "slippery slope" argument is well tested and proven also. Let's face it, the Western world is run by "progressives" and most of us here are regressives. It sucks, and no Joe, it's not a pigment of yer machinations.jnyork wrote:Your prognostications on the internet are a hell of a lot easier for the gooberment to track than any chip they might put in a gun. And, I'm sure you are already aware, they are doing that tracking right now, no need to wait for advances in chip technology.
I wont stop buying Eyetallian arms, but I'll look for those daggum chips and smash 'em.
Oly
Just remember to take them out of the gun before you smash 'em.
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts .***
Re: OT: Italian Guns to be Manufactured with RFID Technology
I'm not saying not to worry about Big Brother invading our privacy. He's neck deep in our lives now, more so than most of you know. I just commented that the current state of the art for RFIDs is limited to close range identification which is primarily for inventory management, not tracking after sale. The Gooberment doesn't need that because you have to register the sale when you buy your firearms. With your DL and/or SSN tacked to the sale, they can keep tabs on you just fine.J Miller wrote:Aw well, I should know better than to post things "I" find interesting and worrisome. Seems you all know better and what I've watched happen since 1963 is just a figment of my imagination.
Someday I'll learn.
Joe
In fact, if you're worried about Big Brother knowing where you are in real time, dump the cellphone (even the non GPS versions can be triangulated), rotate your license plates and paint your car in secret every 2 blocks (traffic cams), dump any credit cards and loyalty cards you own (they provide a detailed 'way you live' picture), stay out of any stores, banks, govt buildings, sporting events, etc. (surveillance cameras), change your cloths and facial appearance every few blocks (surveillance cameras and facial recognition s/w), and don't adhere to any repeatable pattern in where you go, when you go there, and/or how you get there (basically you can't have a job). And that will only help if they aren't actively looking for you. If they are, then its only a matter of time. In short, welcome to the modern world.
I spent 41½ years in the defense business producing products to provide 'insight' to the National Command Authority and it's intelligence agencies and you wouldn't believe what capabilities they already have and the information on file on everyone already. And they can obtain additional updated details with just a few minutes work and, if they decide to take an interest in you, they can focus a wide variety of information types to virtually predict where you'll go, what you'll do, and when you next need to pee. Our best defense is that there are over 300 million of us here and if they don't have a reason to watch, they concentrate on those they've been directed to focus on.
Steve
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No Matter Where You Go, There You Are
Retired and Living the Good Life
No Matter Where You Go, There You Are
- J Miller
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Re: OT: Italian Guns to be Manufactured with RFID Technology
Well Steve, if I ever had a doubt, it's gone now. After reading your post I am 100% convince I was born 100 years too late.
Yeah, 100 years 100 YEARS TO darn LATE!
Also consider the fact we are on a gun forum which the leftists in this govt hate and we really are being incognito ......
Joe
Yeah, 100 years 100 YEARS TO darn LATE!
Also consider the fact we are on a gun forum which the leftists in this govt hate and we really are being incognito ......
Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts .***
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Re: OT: Italian Guns to be Manufactured with RFID Technology
O.S.O.K. wrote:I've got plenty of old guns.... don't need to worry about any tracking chips.
Ha! +2,000---------------Sixgun
- El Chivo
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Re: OT: Italian Guns to be Manufactured with RFID Technology
I was reading a pretty good murder mystery and it delved into Big Brother's current ability to track us using chips like that. Except it wasn't really Big Brother, the Government. It was data collection for commercial purposes. They were trying to follow an agent that went missing, and they punched up credit card data and found where she bought gas that day.
Then they went into another level, which some RFID type sensor was imbedded in her debit card or ID card. Every time it came close to one of their stations it made a record of it. They were able to track her movements down to a city block and just a couple of minutes old. Plus they tracked her cell phone. Also they got the whereabouts of her car since it was a city with automatic toll reading.
I don't know if it was BS or not but I'm pretty sure the technology exists. You might have to be in a big urban area to pass significant numbers of stations but who knows. If you're serious about not being tracked you have to get rid of more than your guns. Cell phone, GPS, credit cards, etc.
Then they went into another level, which some RFID type sensor was imbedded in her debit card or ID card. Every time it came close to one of their stations it made a record of it. They were able to track her movements down to a city block and just a couple of minutes old. Plus they tracked her cell phone. Also they got the whereabouts of her car since it was a city with automatic toll reading.
I don't know if it was BS or not but I'm pretty sure the technology exists. You might have to be in a big urban area to pass significant numbers of stations but who knows. If you're serious about not being tracked you have to get rid of more than your guns. Cell phone, GPS, credit cards, etc.
"I'll tell you what living is. You get up when you feel like it. You fry yourself some eggs. You see what kind of a day it is."
Re: OT: Italian Guns to be Manufactured with RFID Technology
I remove RFID devices from items I purchase and take them to WalMart and re-stick them to the underside of store shelving. Maybe they do nothing, maybe they are an electronic wrench in the gears.
Noah
Noah
Might as well face it, you're addicted to guns . . .
- Old Savage
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Re: OT: Italian Guns to be Manufactured with RFID Technology
They already know where you are and what you got. Hide in the open and let them realize the magnitude of the problem.
Re: OT: Italian Guns to be Manufactured with RFID Technology
This isn't fiction, its fact. That's how those cards you just wave at the reader in the store work. Wave it at the sensor and it knows everything about you. But again, remember that the range of the current technology is limited.El Chivo wrote:I was reading a pretty good murder mystery and it delved into Big Brother's current ability to track us using chips like that. Except it wasn't really Big Brother, the Government. It was data collection for commercial purposes. They were trying to follow an agent that went missing, and they punched up credit card data and found where she bought gas that day.
Then they went into another level, which some RFID type sensor was imbedded in her debit card or ID card. Every time it came close to one of their stations it made a record of it. They were able to track her movements down to a city block and just a couple of minutes old. Plus they tracked her cell phone. Also they got the whereabouts of her car since it was a city with automatic toll reading.
I don't know if it was BS or not but I'm pretty sure the technology exists. You might have to be in a big urban area to pass significant numbers of stations but who knows. If you're serious about not being tracked you have to get rid of more than your guns. Cell phone, GPS, credit cards, etc.
Steve
Retired and Living the Good Life
No Matter Where You Go, There You Are
Retired and Living the Good Life
No Matter Where You Go, There You Are
Re: OT: Italian Guns to be Manufactured with RFID Technology
Sieg Heil, Everybody!
It's only a matter of time now. It'll be just like the serial numbers - illegal to
tamper with. And once it is, you can bet your last d0llar a scanner of some sort
will be standard-issue for all police officers.
The laws that require this will be passed very quietly - just like the ones that
require a "signature" on the copies of hi-end color copiers, the ones that put a
black box in your car, and the ones that put a GPS chip in your cell phone. No
opt-out clauses, either - they'll be required by law.
Let's hope that they don't put 'em in ammunition.
-Stretch
It's only a matter of time now. It'll be just like the serial numbers - illegal to
tamper with. And once it is, you can bet your last d0llar a scanner of some sort
will be standard-issue for all police officers.
The laws that require this will be passed very quietly - just like the ones that
require a "signature" on the copies of hi-end color copiers, the ones that put a
black box in your car, and the ones that put a GPS chip in your cell phone. No
opt-out clauses, either - they'll be required by law.
Let's hope that they don't put 'em in ammunition.
-Stretch
Re: OT: Italian Guns to be Manufactured with RFID Technology
Back in the day when I worked in heavy industry in Corporate America, I made a practice of regularly placing my CCs on top of one of dozens of large induction motors in the plant, ranging from 100 HP to 2500 HP. Smaller motors didn't work as well. Doing so "fried" the magnetic strip and forced merchant clerks to key in the number by hand. Nothing could be saved on the strip and uploaded/downloaded by the CC company during transactions because the formatting of the strip was magnetically wiped.
Nowadays, I don't care if they know I buy most of my fuel from Sheetz or Country Fair so I just swipe the card.
I generally stay away from rewards cards, except for the new Sheetz "My Card" which I only use when buying fuel, NOTHING in the store. I get 3 cents off each gallon, and they get no other info on me that they would not already have from the CC for the purchase itself.
Noah
Nowadays, I don't care if they know I buy most of my fuel from Sheetz or Country Fair so I just swipe the card.
I generally stay away from rewards cards, except for the new Sheetz "My Card" which I only use when buying fuel, NOTHING in the store. I get 3 cents off each gallon, and they get no other info on me that they would not already have from the CC for the purchase itself.
Noah
Might as well face it, you're addicted to guns . . .
Re: OT: Italian Guns to be Manufactured with RFID Technology
What is the difference between cynicism and paranoia?
Re: OT: Italian Guns to be Manufactured with RFID Technology
It isn't paranoia if it's real.BAGTIC wrote:What is the difference between cynicism and paranoia?
Noah
Might as well face it, you're addicted to guns . . .
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Re: OT: Italian Guns to be Manufactured with RFID Technology
No different than the theft prevention chips in lots of merchandise. That's what causes the alarm to go off when somebody walks out of walmart without them deactivating the thing.....
News flash, not really a big deal, nor is the use of 3-D bar codes laser etched on parts to insure the main parts stay with the right gun.....
News flash, not really a big deal, nor is the use of 3-D bar codes laser etched on parts to insure the main parts stay with the right gun.....
Certified gun nut
Re: OT: Italian Guns to be Manufactured with RFID Technology
So far no one has mentioned any concern about a completely legal way that commercial companies are tracking people real time and its been going on for years. I'm betting that many of you even have these right now. The authorities can use these companies' products to gain easy access to the real time information they receive.
Yep, GM's OnStar and the LoJack theft systems are in vehicles right now and can be used to track you without you knowing it. Not only can they track your movements, but get ready for this ........... they can also listen in on your conversations while you're inside your vehicle and you'll never even know its happened!!! Bet you didn't see that one coming did ya?
Even though I have GM vehicles, I won't put OnStar in one just for that reason.
Yep, GM's OnStar and the LoJack theft systems are in vehicles right now and can be used to track you without you knowing it. Not only can they track your movements, but get ready for this ........... they can also listen in on your conversations while you're inside your vehicle and you'll never even know its happened!!! Bet you didn't see that one coming did ya?
Even though I have GM vehicles, I won't put OnStar in one just for that reason.
Steve
Retired and Living the Good Life
No Matter Where You Go, There You Are
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No Matter Where You Go, There You Are
- J Miller
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Re: OT: Italian Guns to be Manufactured with RFID Technology
I did know that, and I will not own a vehicle with it either.
Joe
Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts .***
Re: OT: Italian Guns to be Manufactured with RFID Technology
I didn't know that LoJack can listen. Considering where the one in one of my vehicles is located, I wouldn't want to listen. Sometimes it has an extremely gassy teenager above it.
D. Brian Casady
Quid Llatine Dictum Sit, Altum Viditur.
Advanced is being able to do the basics while your leg is on fire---Bill Jeans
Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up---Robert Frost
Quid Llatine Dictum Sit, Altum Viditur.
Advanced is being able to do the basics while your leg is on fire---Bill Jeans
Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up---Robert Frost
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Re: OT: Italian Guns to be Manufactured with RFID Technology
We're all online, and most of us use windows. End of story.
In the end, I'm not hiding, and can't anyway. I am pretty sure I'm not important enough to have anybody spend resources on me in a country of 318,000 people.
If they want me, I'm easy to find. Heck, I got a deputy Sheriff who can see my house from his front porch, and I KNOW his lappie can see my wifi network (I can see his), so with the right warrants, he could keylog my machine (could be doing it now, LOL)
In the end, I'm not hiding, and can't anyway. I am pretty sure I'm not important enough to have anybody spend resources on me in a country of 318,000 people.
If they want me, I'm easy to find. Heck, I got a deputy Sheriff who can see my house from his front porch, and I KNOW his lappie can see my wifi network (I can see his), so with the right warrants, he could keylog my machine (could be doing it now, LOL)
Certified gun nut
Re: OT: Italian Guns to be Manufactured with RFID Technology
(psst...Joe....this entire site is nothing but a ruse by the NSA to keep track of YOU personally.....)
The Rotten Fruit Always Hits The Ground First
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NRA
Second Amendment Foundation
Citizens Committee For The Right To Keep And Bear Arms
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Re: OT: Italian Guns to be Manufactured with RFID Technology
Just being paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you!BAGTIC wrote:What is the difference between cynicism and paranoia?
Anyway, the concept of paranoia with respect to the subject at hand does not exist. Your fears are legitimate and justified by experience and circumstances.
Cynicism would be the acceptance of that situation as an unchangeable fact of life.
IMHO
Have you hugged your rifle today?
Re: OT: Italian Guns to be Manufactured with RFID Technology
OnStar bugs me too and I wont own it. In fact, the service played a key role in the recent movie "Horrible Bosses" and it was definitely a Big Brother kind of thing. Not cool in my opinion.
Oly
Oly
Cheers,
Oly
I hope and pray someday the world will learn
That fires we don't put out will bigger burn
Johnny Wright
Oly
I hope and pray someday the world will learn
That fires we don't put out will bigger burn
Johnny Wright
- J Miller
- Member Emeritus
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Re: OT: Italian Guns to be Manufactured with RFID Technology
Ah ha! That explains why my wife is always checking to see that I'm on here.BlaineG wrote:(psst...Joe....this entire site is nothing but a ruse by the NSA to keep track of YOU personally.....)
I'll bet NSA stands for "National Spouse Administration".
Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts .***
Re: OT: Italian Guns to be Manufactured with RFID Technology
I have noticed that a lot of people who obsess over people spying on them flatter themselves. I think they like believing that they are worth spying on. Most everything THEY want to kinow about us they already know. The rest they can find out regardless of what we may do trying to prevent it. Worrying about it is about as productive as spinning one's wheel in deep mud. Makes a lot of noise, attracts a lot of attention, makes for a messy life but doesn't produce much progress.